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Free me from the FAT32 curse

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    Free me from the FAT32 curse

    If you know anything about file systems, you know FAT32 is one of the really awful ones created by Microsoft. However, I use it because I use thumb drives. In fact, I don't do any of my work on my computer's internal hard drive. I have thumb drives with specific purposes. For each of those I have a backup thumb drive that I keep in sync with FreeFileSyc. It's a good system that works for me. I do it this way because I work on different computers and it's easy to just plug in a thumb drive and start working.

    However, these thumb drives come with Microsoft's dreadful FAT32 file system. That inefficient thing was one of the reasons why earlier versions of Windows were so unstable. I've begrudgingly continued using FAT32 on thumb drives because sometimes I still have to work in Windows. Both *buntu and Windows read FAT32 just fine. However, I have been experiencing FAT32's trashy nature a lot. Numerous times folder on the thumb drive gets its files/file names all scrambled and it becomes impossible to go in and edit anything. Of course, that's what backups are for. I've been just going into Gparted and reformatting the drive and then restoring the backup. It's getting annoying how often I have to do that. Today, my 16 GB Lexar thumb drive had a folder so trashed that Gparted could not even read the drive. I sat there waiting an eternity for that normally reliable app to read the stupid drive. I finally had to boot to Windows 7 (where I am now) and format the thing with the HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool. It's working, but it's taking a LONG time. (Btw, the trashing of this thumb drive happened after working in Windows, not Kubuntu.)

    I'm thinking of junking any use of FAT32 and using ext2 instead. I found these utilities that will let Windows read ext2, 3, and 4:

    http://www.howtogeek.com/112888/3-wa...-from-windows/

    http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/

    However, I like the fact that when I'm in Windows, Windows cannot access my Linux hard drive at all. That's why I'm wondering if I can use these utilities to make all my thumb drives ext2 ones and then give Windows the ability to access ext2 drives, but not ext3 or ext4. Has anyone used such a utility and would my plan work?

    Another option would be to use Microsoft's other prominent file system, NTFS. It's better than FAT32, but it's still pretty crappy. The other issue with that is file permissions can become a major hassle. If you've been working with an NTFS thumb drive on one PC and go to work on another, you have to take ownership of the files or you can't use them on the other computer. Would I run across the same problem if I used ext2? I guess I could write some kind of script that takes ownership of all files if I had to, though that would be a lot of trouble.

    In any event, if anyone has used any of these ext2,3,4 file utilities for Windows, I would be interested in how they worked for you.
    Kubuntu 22.04 (desktop & laptop), Windows 7 &2K (via VirtualBox on desktop PC)
    ================================

    #2
    Another way to use a thumb drive but keep your linux stuff safe is to partition the drive. I format the first partition NTFS and the second EXT2.

    As far as alternatives to fat32/NTFS have you considered exFAT? I've never used it, but my understanding is windows/mac will read it out-of-the-box and linux will if you install the exfat drivers/utilities.

    Please Read Me

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      #3
      Originally posted by Tom_ZeCat View Post
      Another option would be to use Microsoft's other prominent file system, NTFS. It's better than FAT32, but it's still pretty crappy. The other issue with that is file permissions can become a major hassle. If you've been working with an NTFS thumb drive on one PC and go to work on another, you have to take ownership of the files or you can't use them on the other computer. Would I run across the same problem if I used ext2?
      Wow. Tom, I love ya like I love all our forum members, but you're making a baseless assertion here. NTFS is an extremely reliable and robust file system. It includes journaling, transactional commits (atomicity), self-healing, persistent shadow copies, a quota mechanism, built-in encryption, opportunistic locks for multitasking access, and more. Millions of enterprise servers rely on this file system.

      I'll grant that cross-platform issues are a different matter. exFAT, as Oshunluvr mentions, is probably the best choice for now. Using ext2 will carry similar permissions challenges as NTFS.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by SteveRiley View Post
        Wow. Tom, I love ya like I love all our forum members, but you're making a baseless assertion here. NTFS is an extremely reliable and robust file system. It includes journaling, transactional commits (atomicity), self-healing, persistent shadow copies, a quota mechanism, built-in encryption, opportunistic locks for multitasking access, and more. Millions of enterprise servers rely on this file system.

        I'll grant that cross-platform issues are a different matter. exFAT, as Oshunluvr mentions, is probably the best choice for now. Using ext2 will carry similar permissions challenges as NTFS.
        I'm not big on NTFS because Windows OSes today with NTFS still have to have their hard drives defragmented unlike ext2, 3, &4 and Mac's HFS Plus. I will grant that NTFS is way better than FAT32. And nowadays our large hard drives take FOREVER to defragment.

        An update:
        I was able to install exFAT in the Synaptic Package Manager. I was surprised that Gparted would not format a drive as exFAT, but I found the terminal commands here:

        http://www.maketecheasier.com/quick-...fat-in-ubuntu/

        I've set up a test thumb drive, which worked flawlessly in both Kubuntu and Windows. Soon I'll be converting over all my FAT32 thumb drives and there will be no more using that awful old file system.
        Last edited by Tom_ZeCat; Aug 29, 2014, 11:50 AM.
        Kubuntu 22.04 (desktop & laptop), Windows 7 &2K (via VirtualBox on desktop PC)
        ================================

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Tom_ZeCat View Post
          I'm not big on NTFS because Windows OSes today with NTFS still have to have their hard drives defragmented unlike ext2, 3, &4 and Mac's HFS Plus.
          Actually, ext2, ext3, and ext4 suffer from defragmentation. The kernel strives to minimize this, however. ext4 includes a utility to perform online defragmentation and also supports extents, which can further minimize fragmentation. It's true that the NTOS kernel doesn't strive as much to avoid fragmentation. Versions of Windows starting with Vista create a scheduled task that periodically runs the defragger, defrag.exe, in the background during idle times.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by SteveRiley View Post
            Actually, ext2, ext3, and ext4 suffer from defragmentation. The kernel strives to minimize this, however. ext4 includes a utility to perform online defragmentation and also supports extents, which can further minimize fragmentation. It's true that the NTOS kernel doesn't strive as much to avoid fragmentation. Versions of Windows starting with Vista create a scheduled task that periodically runs the defragger, defrag.exe, in the background during idle times.
            You'll only end up with fragmentation with ext2/3/4 if your hard drive starts getting too full. Its fragmentation avoidance does a great job as long as it has the extra disk space it needs. Microsoft's defrag.exe utility does help NTFS to do a lot better than FAT32. I agree that NTFS is a big improvement over FAT32 and earlier, but I still think Ext* is better.

            In any event, neither Ext* nor NTFS was the right solution to my problem. ExFAT is the best choice. I'm busy converting my thumb drives over to it tonight and making sure all my Linux PCs can read them.

            Now where were these better file systems back in the days of Windows 9x? Those OSes could have really benefited from them.
            Kubuntu 22.04 (desktop & laptop), Windows 7 &2K (via VirtualBox on desktop PC)
            ================================

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Tom_ZeCat View Post
              ExFAT is the best choice.
              I concur. Even though it's patented, the third party cross-platform implementations appear to be well done.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by SteveRiley View Post
                I concur. Even though it's patented, the third party cross-platform implementations appear to be well done.
                Thanks for telling me about it (and thanks to all who wrote). It's high time to quit using that Windows 95 technology, FAT32. If memory serves me right, FAT32 showed up with Win95. I think Windows 3.1 was FAT16.

                I wonder if they'll start making ExFAT thumb drives.
                Kubuntu 22.04 (desktop & laptop), Windows 7 &2K (via VirtualBox on desktop PC)
                ================================

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