No decent package manager

[Teunis]

Doing this near-fresh install of the Beta I noticed a few old horses were no longer part of the team.
Like Konqueror and Rekonq are no longer installed.

But what really drew my attention was that the Muon Package Manager was no longer there, instead two of the pretty but useless toy-versions were installed.
Not good for KDE-newbies!
Now I know we're supposed to be moving to Apper but it was also missing.
Trying to install Apper ended in a dependency conflict...

[Rog132]

Sources of information

Kubuntu 14.04 LTS Schedule, Plans,...

https://www.kubuntuforums.net/showth...Schedule-Plans

kubuntu-devel -- Kubuntu Developer Discussion

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-devel

Kubuntu 14.04 Trello

https://trello.com/b/s8tG9Zlf/14-04


Resoning of the package manager

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ku...ry/007667.html


Reasoning of the default browser

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ku...er/007591.html



Apper

Trying to install Apper ended in a dependency conflict...

At here:

Log of sudo apt-get install apper
Sun Mar 2 02:04:51 2014
...
The following extra packages will be installed:
app-install-data apper-data appstream-index gdebi-core libappstream0 libgee2
liblistaller-glib0 libpackagekit-qt2-6 listaller packagekit
packagekit-backend-aptcc packagekit-tools python3-packagekit
Suggested packages:
debconf-kde-helper packagekit-backend-smart
The following packages will be REMOVED:
python3-aptdaemon.pkcompat
The following NEW packages will be installed:
app-install-data apper apper-data appstream-index gdebi-core libappstream0
libgee2 liblistaller-glib0 libpackagekit-qt2-6 listaller packagekit
packagekit-backend-aptcc packagekit-tools python3-packagekit
0 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 13.8 MB of archives.
After this operation, 43.5 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]...

[Teunis]

Thanks for the links, ever so nice to get help from someone 'in the know'.

So I understand we're now or for the time being going with Muon Discoverer?
It's very good looking but to give an example typing kdeconnect in the search bar only brings up nothing...

I noticed it does not have a button to force an update but changing a setting in the sources did result in a notification upgrades were available.
But it does not have a preview (list) of apps that are going to be upgraded, only a button for a full upgrade.

After a reboot because of a different installation I noticed I could get Apper reinstalled and working.
Apper does have a function to show the list of apps that have an upgrade available.

[claydoh]

Muon package manager is still in the repos, btw.

kde-connect not showing should (imo) be considered a bug in the packaging or whatever method is used to filter which packages are shown in Muon SC/Muon Discover/Ubuntu Software Center.

Bug reported

[GreyGeek]

And, as always, apt-get and dpkg in a Konsole are always at the ready!

[Buddlespit]

I read what the devs were saying about Muon and Nepomuk (and Baloo) and I am starting to see a problem. KDE is a feature rich and beautiful desktop that doesn't require the user to have to fight with his system to get it working. If my wife opens Kontact, she would be absolutely lost if she had to choose between different information managers. Same with having to choose between Apper and Muon and Muon Discover.

Personally, I don't mind tinkering under the hood when it comes to my system. But a year ago, I couldn't tell you the difference between Kmail, Akonadi and Nepomuk. I would have been very hard pressed to figure out how to set up Baloo. I think I'm starting to see a 'sink-or-swim' mentality when it comes to the end user. When my wife turns on her computer, she wants to be able to just read her email or surf the web or play World of Warcraft, not spend hours scouring Google to figure out what the best app manager for her system is. God forbid I ask her to open a terminal and type "sudo aptitude...."

If the end user were to be asked to set up a desktop out of the box, it would be akin to saying "the only option you have is Openbox... Good luck, Google is your friend...". Straight back to Windows they go. And why not? It works without tedious desktop modifications and tweaking.

[oshunluvr]

I always liked KpackageKit (Apper in a previous life). I used Synaptic for a few months (never really liked it) during the time kpk was being transformed into apper (and broke in the process), but I'm not opposed to going back to kpk vis-à-vis Apper.

Frankly, Synaptic and Muon are too "Gee-Whiz"-y for me anyway. Last year, like the fifth time Muon crashed and I had to go through yet another -a -configure session, I wrote aliases and eventually a script for apt-get basic functions. Now I just type update, upgrade, install or remove and the package name and enter my password.

In my spare time (yeah, right) I'm trying to learn to program again. I want a GUI frontend for apt-get/dpkg that allows a few clicks and shows you the text output in a window. I won't have an "App Store" look to it, but who cares? At the pace I'm getting a handle on signals and slots, it's going to be awhile!

[Rog132]

History of the Kubuntu package managers

The 'claydoh's blog of ill repute' : http://claydoh.com/ has the long (?) history of the Kubuntu package managers: http://claydoh.com/kubuntu-and-package-managers/


Seen them all and still using the apt-get from the command line - maybe they are too late and too little for me...

[richb]

Synaptic is the gold standard for me. Available in any Debian based distro, full featured and easy to use.

[Snowhog]

...still using the apt-get from the command line...

I too, do my package management using apt-get and/or dpkg from the CLI. I think all GUI package managers that utilize apt have some failings that just can't be/haven't been coded out of them.

[life0riley]

Doing this near-fresh install of the Beta I noticed a few old horses were no longer part of the team.
Like Konqueror and Rekonq are no longer installed.

But what really drew my attention was that the Muon Package Manager was no longer there, instead two of the pretty but useless toy-versions were installed.
Not good for KDE-newbies!
Now I know we're supposed to be moving to Apper but it was also missing.
Trying to install Apper ended in a dependency conflict...

I didn't realize Muon wasn't going to be included. I installed from alph2 and Muon was still there. That's too bad. I hope the new package manager has the functionality that Muon had for me. I used Muon to search for package names and used apt-get to install them. Now I have to install from Beta to see what this is going to be like.

[Snowhog]

It just isn't being included in the .iso. You can still install it afterwards.

[life0riley]

It just isn't being included in the .iso. You can still install it afterwards.

Thanks. I'll be doing that.

I just took a look at Muon Disover and my first impression was not a good one. I wasn't at the level of bursting into flames, but it irritated me enough to make me write about it here.

It seemed a little slow to open. I can really do without the slide show. To me this is an unnecessary use of resources. The search feature is terrible. It is slow, and I can't search by package name. When I search by typing "sensors" (without quotes) in the Muon Package Manager I get a long list of packages related to the word sensors. If I type "sensors" into Muon Discover I get a limited list of seven applications that I don't want. Who thought this was a good idea? It is totally useless to me. This reminds me of Unity. Its like a Unity GUI for a package manager.

I really can't see a good reason for this change. Someone please convince me Muon Discover is a good thing.

[MoonRise]

Actually use Synaptic and have been really from day 1. I think it really all goes down to personal "taste".

[Teunis]

Yes I largely agree with Life0riley.
Sure Synaptic exists and is still the Über-package manager but there's nothing wrong with having a QT-based one.
For years I've been using Muon and it worked and got better every release.

I can see the sense in having an alternate version for the newbs, something with pretty pictures etc.
But to properly enjoy Kubuntu you need the power of Muon Package Manager.
Of course the first thing I did was install Muon-proper but it shouldn't be necessary.

Maybe it's an idea to include a prominent switch/button on the present discoverer to lead to the Pro-version called Muon Package Manager?