Hate Muon - Love root account!

[Frank616]

Muon is a valiant effort, but I prefer Synaptic, and have for a long time. Muon just keeps messing up. I've had several issues with it on several machines ever since it first appeared. While its getting better, it still is not up to par IMHO.

I just did a security upgrade on 12.04 on my little Eeepc 901. It ran fine, and Muon then claimed that it needed gstreamer additions. I started it, but Muon 'hung' (again), so I closed it. It closed normally. When I rebooted, it got the login screen, but as soon as I logged in to my user account, I got a message:

Cannot open consolekit session: unable to open session: The permission of the setuid helper is not correct.

The machine continued to boot, but I got a crash handler warning, no network support AT ALL (NM didn't load), and a couple of other broken items in the 'kicker'. With a sigh, (again), I booted into the root account, which is one of the first things that I set up on a machine when I do an install. I got the same message at boot, but NM loaded, and I had a way to fix it at least. This time I loaded Synaptic, it found the broken gstreamer package, resolved it, reconfigured everything, and asked me to reboot.

The next boot brought the machine up to the way it should have been.

Why can't Muon do something as simple as a security upgrade? Makes me sad, and tired at the same time.

Frank.

[claydoh]

Dunno, as I have never had these issues with Muon since well before it became an official part of Kubuntu. However I generally use Muon Package Manager instead of the Updater in Precise. I have experienced the exact same things you describe using synaptic over the years, btw. The updater isn't designed for power users, and the quirks that do exist in apt package management and package distribution/propagation do warrant at least some sort of progress bar or what-is-being-added/removed dialog that the big Package Manager has.

I wonder if enabling a root account and Ubuntu's consolekit implementation compete with each other? (just a stray thought here, as the latter is used to control various user permissions an the like). Doing something as advanced and untested/unsupported as enabling root might warrant using advanced system management tools in addition, at least until you see what works fine. You probably will have fun discovering this

I just realized I haven't used a root account on any daily-use Linux installation since 2005, lol!

[dmeyer]

Muon? I hate to nitpick but Muon is a suite of applications. There is a software center, an updater, a package manager and soon Muon Discover. If you are looking for added power then just use the package manager. You can always just install Synaptic if you want. Personally I have found Muon package manager to be quite fantastic and never had an issue with it. I still think Yast Software Manager is the best, followed by Synpatic then followed closely by Muon. If you are really having issues with Muon Package Manager (My recommended package manager of all the components in the Muon suite) then just install Synaptic. Use what works for you rather than doing all these nasty things like enabling a root account. Why not just use sudo?

[NickStone]

These bugs your reporting about Muon, have you filed any bug reports? That is the best way to resolve issues like the one you mention and improve the package for everyone. Stop thinking the Microsoft way of doing things, this is Linux where everyone has the opportunity to improve it the whole OS.

[Robtygart]

Muon has always worked great for me on all three PCs I have used it on.

[Frank616]

Claydoh:

I just realized I haven't used a root account on any daily-use Linux installation since 2005, lol!

I don't use it often, but it has been a lifesaver when I needed it.

Enabling root provides a second password which is then exclusive to machine system control. sudo takes the user account password ordinarily, which gives that user account the 'power' to mess a machine up. I don't like the idea that my car key would also open my house, my garage, my business, my safety deposit box. Using the user account password effectively does that.

Enabling root requires sudo to take the root password, rather than the user account password. Isn't that the whole purpose of the root account -- to restrict system access? sudo, as used by Canonical, effectively sidesteps that. I don't see that as a good thing.

Yes, a user account can be removed from the 'sudoers' list, preventing this. But then one needs two user accounts if one wants to have a separate 'key' for day to day use, and administration. One account with sudo privileges for system work, and one without for day to day use. If you run two accounts anyway for security reasons, why not just enable root?

Canonical came up with this idea of blocking the root account, and some others are now following (Fedora). It has not been the 'norm' in Unix / Linux, however, and, AFAIK, is still not common among distros in general. Anyone heard of this at the server level?

I wonder if enabling a root account and Ubuntu's consolekit implementation compete with each other? (just a stray thought here, as the latter is used to control various user permissions an the like).

That is a possibility. I have noticed a change in recent releases, where the Muon suite asks only for the password for one of the user accounts when it wants to make changes to the system. I don't remember if KPackageKit behaved the same way or not. In any case, it would appear that Muon does not see, or does not acknowledge the root account, or the root password, if set.

Frank.

[kubicle]

I don't use it often, but it has been a lifesaver when I needed it.

I have never needed it to solve problems, I've solved every problem I've had with sudo (or with the recovery mode when I've managed to make sudo disfunctional). That's not to say you shouldn't enable root account if you prefer (and know what you're doing).

Enabling root requires sudo to take the root password, rather than the user account password.

Not alone it shouldn't. Sudo can be configured to ask for the root password (rootpw, targetpw or runaspw options in sudoers), but just enabling the root account shouldn't change the default of asking the sudo user's password.

Canonical came up with this idea of blocking the root account.

It's not a Canonical idea, Macs used it first.

Anyone heard of this at the server level?

Sudo is used quite a lot on servers (though not necessarily as a replacement for the root password)...The root password usually exist on servers but is not used for management tasks (often kept under lock and key), and sudo is used to give server admins the permissions they need to perform their tasks (of course this depends a lot on the organisation, it's size and the size of the network and their admin staff...and the security level required).

[Frank616]

Kubicle:

I have never needed it to solve problems, I've solved every problem I've had with sudo (or with the recovery mode when I've managed to make sudo disfunctional). That's not to say you shouldn't enable root account if you prefer (and know what you're doing).

I hand edit sudoers to add rootpw, and kdmrc to AllowRootLogin to achieve what I am looking for.

I use sudo most of the time. This most recent snag would have been much harder to fix had the root account not opened with the network up and running. As the error I got was a permissions error, I figured opening the root account would get around it in one step, and I was right. From there I ran Synaptic, and it fixed everything that was out of whack in one step. Pretty painless. Otherwise I would have been chasing permissions errors all over my user account. Are there other ways to do it? Undoubtedly. But for this relatively untrained user, this is an example of where an active root account saved my butt.

I make no pretense of being a Linux guru. I am primarily a user, self-taught, with no formal training in computers --ever. I have been using Linux 100% for the past 6 years both at home and in my small business. I mess with iptables by hand to create a filter that keeps the workers at my shop only on the site I want. Do I understand iptables? Not a hope. But I learned enough, and asked enough questions of people who DO know to allow me to do what I needed. The Linux community is a wonderful place full of all kinds of esoteric knowledge. That is one of the reasons I am here.

I started using Linux with Xandros 1.0 in 2003. I've not used Windows since Win98. So, though I am not a Linux guru, and I still have much to learn, I am comfortable with it at least.

It's not a Canonical idea, Macs used it first.

That makes the idea even worse.

Frank.