Sooo folks behind the curtain..is Kubu Precise going to "work"?

[woodsmoke]

I quite realize that it is still in "testing" but I have not been able to get it to "update" the couple of times I installed it without it breaking.

Apparently, if one updates useing apt-get, then the updates don't break one's system...

So.....the question is....generally speaking..... for the people are behind the curtains so to speak...

Is Kubu Precise going to work? Or are there some "problems"...

woodsmoke

[Flip the Switch]

I've been using Synaptic to update and it works flawlessly,
I tried Muon but it doesn't really ring my bell.
And why do we need three variants Muon Update Manager. Software Centre and Package Manager.
That must cause noobs to Kubuntu some concerns.

[woodsmoke]

Thankee FTS

Any other comments?

woodsmoke

[vw72]

I've been using Synaptic to update and it works flawlessly,
I tried Muon but it doesn't really ring my bell.
And why do we need three variants Muon Update Manager. Software Centre and Package Manager.
That must cause noobs to Kubuntu some concerns.

Actually, I like the three variants. They address three different things. Muon Package Manager is a decent replacement for Synaptic. Software Center is for those wanting simple interface, like Ubuntu's Software Center. And of course, Update Manager does just that. Three different tools for three different use scenarios, but all relying on the same underlying Muon. It is, in my opinion, a much better approach than Ubuntu with Synaptic, Software Center and its own Update Manager with different underlying systems.

For the record, Muon in the 12.04 beta 1 and alphas did not work very well, but by beta 2, it has been flawless.

[lcorken]

I'm not behind any curtain but here's my 2 cents.

apt-get in the terminal seems to work best for me. It will often give a message something like this...

The following packages have been kept back:
linux-generic linux-image-generic shotwell
The following packages will be upgraded:
...

I assume there is a good reason to keep these packages back. Muon will ask if you want to install them anyway. That can break stuff. By not installing the kept back stuff this system has been fairly stable.

Chicken man Ken.

[vw72]

Thankee FTS

Any other comments?

woodsmoke

12.04 Beta 2 has been rock solid. I am now using it on production machines. The only thing to watch out for is if it says updates are available, to wait a day or two before installing them. That way, if an update were found to break systems, it would hopefully be fixed before you installed it. In my not so humble opinion, 12.04 is going to be the best Kubuntu yet.

[GreyGeek]

Actually, I like the three variants. .....

Dittos... with apt-get thrown in for good measure. (I could never do without apt and dpkg.)

I was a Synaptic user until Precise reached beta 2. That's when I uninstalled Synaptic.
(Another reason was to reduce the number of GTK+ dependent apps I'm running, but I couldn't hold back from installing GoogleEarth and Skype. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak! )

[kubicle]

apt-get in the terminal seems to work best for me. It will often give a message something like this...

The following packages have been kept back:
linux-generic linux-image-generic shotwell
The following packages will be upgraded:
...

I assume there is a good reason to keep these packages back. Muon will ask if you want to install them anyway. That can break stuff. By not installing the kept back stuff this system has been fairly stable.

This is just the difference between "apt-get upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade" (the first will keep back packages that would require installation of new packages or removal of currently installed packages to upgrade)...You can do both in Muon as well "apt-get upgrade" == "Safe upgrade" in muon and "apt-get dist-upgrade" == "Full upgrade" in Muon

I was a Synaptic user until Precise reached beta 2. That's when I uninstalled Synaptic.
(Another reason was to reduce the number of GTK+ dependent apps I'm running, but I couldn't hold back from installing GoogleEarth and Skype. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak! )

Err...aren't both Skype and GoogleEarth Qt apps (instead of Gtk+)?

[lcorken]

This is just the difference between "apt-get upgrade" and "apt-get dist-upgrade" (the first will keep back packages that would require installation of new packages or removal of currently installed packages to upgrade)...You can do both in Muon as well "apt-get upgrade" == "Safe upgrade" in muon and "apt-get dist-upgrade" == "Full upgrade" in Muon

Thank you for that info kubicle. Good to know. That satisfies a long standing curiosity for me.
I have read about apt-get upgrade and dist-upgrade but you said it in few enough words for this old man to finally understand it.

Thank you.
Ken.

[papabearak]

12.04 Beta 2 has been rock solid. I am now using it on production machines. The only thing to watch out for is if it says updates are available, to wait a day or two before installing them. That way, if an update were found to break systems, it would hopefully be fixed before you installed it. In my not so humble opinion, 12.04 is going to be the best Kubuntu yet.

I second that emotion. Oneiric has been the best version of Kubuntu I have ever tried, and Precise looks like it is going to be a bit better yet. Still a few bugs here and there, but stable for the most part, even as a beta, and a real pleasure to use. Ben

[GreyGeek]

.....Err...aren't both Skype and GoogleEarth Qt apps (instead of Gtk+)?

mmm.... Another example of my memory going South on me.

I did an apt-rdepends on both skype and googleearth-package. It shows that Skype was built using libqt4core and libqtdbus, but googleearth-package doesn't show any dependencies on either gtk or qt. :eek:

Wonder where I got that idea

Another major app I thought was dependent on gtk was FireFox. I did an rdepends on it and found that it DID have a dependency on
"Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.24.0)"

[notabug]

Just to be a little different, I install apper to handle updates. Except for one instance, it has worked well. I waited a few hours, then the updates flowed on their merry way.

[claydoh]

I quite realize that it is still in "testing" but I have not been able to get it to "update" the couple of times I installed it without it breaking.

Apparently, if one updates useing apt-get, then the updates don't break one's system...

So.....the question is....generally speaking..... for the people are behind the curtains so to speak...

Is Kubu Precise going to work? Or are there some "problems"...

woodsmoke

Do read the sticky post on this

And as to updating and 'breaking', more info would be helpful, and might prevent constant reinstalls.
If you run

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

and post any errors you get it is possible to help you work around anything that happens, or advise you if you should proceed.

This sort of stuff is a regular occurrence and is usually fleshed out after everything is "frozen" about the time a beta3 or RC is released.

[woodsmoke]

Hi Claydoh

Youse guuys gotta remember that the ol' woodsmoker ain't all that smart. That apt-get stuff involves typing and since I dictate all my posts to my secretary you'll understand that I'm not that good at the apt-get pizza thing.

So, I tend to do what the new user would do, now yes, I'll then do the apt-get thing, but the new user isn't going to know that stuff or have a secretary who has legs that are as good looking as the one sitting across from me in front of the polished mahogany desk with a rich corinthian backed inkpad that I use to hold the one thing I keep on my desk which is a Taliesin West trivet to hold my cuba libre'.

So, I'll follow your suggestion and just try apt-get fix the thing this weekend!

woodsmoke

[claydoh]

Well you do have to realize that pre-releases generally are for those willing and able to take a few risks, and in doing so can provide feedback (bug reports, etc) to help discover what is broken. Providing the info quite often involves some command line action as that provides all the salient data.

most often the problems users find are simply temporary packaging problems such as an accidentally missed dependency or a not-yet-available one. The command I gave you simply updates your repos, and then performs the update, which will give an error if something is amiss before you actually proceed. And will provide more messages if something didn't install correctly. That way we can assist before it gets to the point of a reinstall, if possible.

I generally refrain from promoting the command line in most cases unless:
a) there is a problem that needs info
b) using any pre-release versions before RC, usually - see reason a
The use of the command line, though extremely useful and not anywhere near as scary as it seems, sort of conflicts with the whole idea of Kubuntu and many other distros