Kubuntu 11.10 is the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today.

[Jonas]

First of all, I can understand your frustration, I've been there myself. One of the key things to know (and all Linux devs say this) "Linux is not Windows", once I fully understood that I stopped thinking how I made on a windows machine.

You must have the magic touch james147, I have spent hours searching, installing packages, following obsolete instructions trying to get this or that to work and inevitably someone comes along in the comments and says "you don't have to do all that!!! just type in -e kdjda" and voila! Why don't they put the voila on the front side. For example, the inevitable app hang.. which after searching some obscure tech site, type xkill in the terminal and a nifty skull and bones appears. Why is the basic functionality "hidden?"

CTRL +ALT +Esc *voila*

Now that many people are computer literate in an increasingly fascist world people are sympathetic to an open source os that gives you more control. It just makes sense in every conceivable way.. If linux devs could take the time to write a useful basic guide explaining everything the average user will need to know (and I know they know EXACTLY what human beings who use computers want to do with them)... and disseminate it alongside the free distro (yeah I said seminate) Microsoft could kiss P of their clientele goodbye. Instead they put out marginally useful books for sale that I don't think further "the cause." I would forcefully tell, nay show, every last person I know about kubuntu if it weren't such a pita. And a lot of those people I forcefully showed would show others, so on and so forth. But nobody's going to be showing nobody anything because its a pain in the ass.

+learn +linux +book +beginner

There are many books to read online aswell - choose them while you learn, there's no book for each and everyone (except the one you write for yourself). While most of my linux (in general) questions would be made here at this forum, there are some who I wont ask here, simply because the program/application and solution would be more quickly and likely to be answered somewhere else i.e WINE/GIMP/Blender etc. related.

But Linux is obviously a great idea who's time has apparently been coming for some time, yet has it arrived? It just seems like such a tragic waste. If it were demystified and legit support and documentation existed (ala Red Hat? i don't know business so much) as the financial side MS would be toast and linux devs could be millionaires.

There's loads and loads of documation - you don't see the wood for all the trees mate - The whole idea is to share experiences and documentation, and again - internet search is one of your friends - this idea nd the freedom is put above "money making" and anti-cooparating a lá M$.

I would gladly shell out $60(open invitation, I have paypal) to have somebody hold my hand while getting all the functionality I need. Might not sound like it but I love this stuff and would do it for fun regardless but I keep having this nagging intuition in the back of my mind that says Linus Torvalds needs an ass kicking, especially now that I know he's worth 150 million but can't afford to write a free cheat sheet for his free os. How in the hell are the African children figuring this stuff out if I can't? What do they have that I don't? This could all just be the beer talking so take it with a grain of yeast.

There is a paypal link somewhere for kubuntuforums.net (not shown since the move of this forum) I'm almost certain that OpenSource and KFN would accept a donation - this forum is one of the best regarding GNULinux, and the most friendly.

Edit; .. and please don't mix up free (OS) with "free" (beer) - or you might have to share those beers of yours gratis

not to mention the default install of kubuntu gives you no room for installing the inevitable support packages you will need to gain the basic functionality humanoids expect from a thousands of dollars computer. I just thought that was a highlight of my experience that i wanted to share. Install kubuntu but then install it again after 15 minutes because your out of space moron!

It all boils down to what you want to do - I would say that the 4 GB suggested is quite enough for *most* basic computers, not sure what you would like to do ( if you bought a 4 GB harddrive for "thousands of dollars", you likely have been scammed).

Also james your link to "ubuntu dvd" first tells me to install one file to solve the problem and then proceeds to tell me to install a completely different file for the same problem. Then it assumes I know the difference between a command line and the terminal. Jesus does anybody here see the disconnect? Look at the page and tell me its not confusing. It's this compounding confusion that is going to burn-out the prospective customer. When your installing software you want straight-forward instructions that leave little guess-work. I really don't need my Sherlockian powers of deduction challenged after the challenge of having built a new computer.

Many problem have diffrent solutions or workarounds, eventually you learn how to quickly expose problems without too much digging the net.

heres a good place to add to favourites http://www.googlubuntu.com/
there you can refine time of the search - thus obsolete answers wont be coming up.

Welcome to KFN and within time you'll see that each problem and "wasted moment" have a solution.

b.r

Jonas

PS; I disagree with OP - Kubuntu is the best OS [period]

[SteveRiley]

Jonas's "Linux is not Windows" comment reminded me of something I read recently that appears applicable here. I forget exactly where I read it, so I'll summarize.

For those steeped in Windows, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+C for copy, and Ctrl+V for paste seem perfectly natural. Have you stopped to consider why? Yes, perhaps they're natural after a few years, but really: you were programmed to consider these as natural because that's what you first learned. Windows users fight mightily against, for example, the editor vi, because it follows a completely different paradigm.

But what if you learned vi first? d would appear to be a quite reasonable choice for "delete," as would p for "paste." In fact, I'd argue that they're more reasonable than the Windows alternatives. It's fair to assume that someone steeped in vi would feel as clueless in Notepad as the other way around.

Different doesn't mean inferior. But it does mean that a certain learning investment is required. The return on that investment can include, among other things, the ability to easily accomplish certain tasks that might otherwise be much more difficult.

[Alocrius]

Thank you guys for your thoughtful responses. I was ranting a bit. :\ I just need to spend more time with the os and less time drinking..

[Alocrius]

Regarding the default install, i think you get 5gb or thereabouts for the root os/repositories. If you start downloading additional repositories like I did (vlc), you run out of space quickly. Kubuntu stopped working for me after it ran out of space. Well something went horribly wrong anyway after I tried to increase my disk space by running the kubuntu install disk on demo mode as someone advised. Now it boots into a black screen where it asks me for my ubuntu password and expects me to write in some fancy code but that isn't going to happen.. I will re-install it today with 20gb on the root.

[Jonas]

Jonas's "Linux is not Windows" comment reminded me of something I read recently that appears applicable here. I forget exactly where I read it, so I'll summarize.

For those steeped in Windows, Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+C for copy, and Ctrl+V for paste seem perfectly natural. Have you stopped to consider why? Yes, perhaps they're natural after a few years, but really: you were programmed to consider these as natural because that's what you first learned. Windows users fight mightily against, for example, the editor vi, because it follows a completely different paradigm.

But what if you learned vi first? d would appear to be a quite reasonable choice for "delete," as would p for "paste." In fact, I'd argue that they're more reasonable than the Windows alternatives. It's fair to assume that someone steeped in vi would feel as clueless in Notepad as the other way around.

Different doesn't mean inferior. But it does mean that a certain learning investment is required. The return on that investment can include, among other things, the ability to easily accomplish certain tasks that might otherwise be much more difficult.

Indeed! I belive that old dogs can learn new tricks, and always searching for new ways to do things keep you mind open, and willing to learn.

I use Blender 3D that heavely depend on shortcuts and key combinations (link below show 2 /5 different layout modes) While I find it hard to remember all they are all "renamed" to easely adapt to a vocabulary that make more sense. "Copy" isn't Ctrl+C but Shift+D which make it "duplicate", "Move" is "G" thus "Grab" and so on. It's not because they want to avoid a standard but out of necessity as W, E, A, S, D, is best at hand and the keys one tend to use most modeling along with Shift/Ctrl/Alt & Tab key. So different in this case I would say is because it "has to be", I wouldn't mind it evolved to something else though. One thing they should change is in middle of all these buttons is Q and Shift+Q still is "Quit" *doh!* .. and blender don't ask if you would like to save before you quit.

Blender key map (I have this as a desktop wall for quick access )

At work I use the mouse with my left hand that is inferior (I'm right handed) just because it's different! I believe that this activates my other brain half (by no means based on scientific research)

Regarding the default install, i think you get 5gb or thereabouts for the root os/repositories. If you start downloading additional repositories like I did (vlc), you run out of space quickly. Kubuntu stopped working for me after it ran out of space. Well something went horribly wrong anyway after I tried to increase my disk space by running the kubuntu install disk on demo mode as someone advised. Now it boots into a black screen where it asks me for my ubuntu password and expects me to write in some fancy code but that isn't going to happen.. I will re-install it today with 20gb on the root.

You could login with name and password - note that you will not see text when you enter the password - then the command startx will/should start the GUI or give some info on what doesnt work. Feel free to post it here for help. I think 20 GB should be enough - consider however if you intend to play any games through WINE, games tend to claim alot of space, 5-10 GB for one(!) game. On my old HD I had 20 GB partitions, when I had Civ 4 installed I had trouble to fit one or more downloaded LiveDVDs. Now I have /home on another partitiion.

B.R

Jonas

[Alocrius]

I actually allotted 20gb for the root and 4gb for swap 500mb for boot and 60gb for home. I think games would be stored in the home/usr directory correct? And repository upgrades probably go to root? I read something about adding an additional /data partition among others but I couldn't figure out what they would be for.. so didn't commit. Also after another day of exploring the os, with the ubuntu for non-geeks book, I figured out everything I was complaining about yesterday.. so I would recommend the book. Got the os installed on a usb drive which is pretty darn slick. I screwed it up then trying to ugrade the kde parts. Guess the usb has its limitations.

[GreyGeek]

Indeed! I belive that old dogs can learn new tricks, ....

In many cases, like mine, this old dog has no choice. He keeps forgetting the tricks he learned so every trick is a new trick. If it weren't for Google or DuckDuckGo I'd have no mind at all.

[SecretCode]

If it weren't for Google or DuckDuckGo I'd have no mind at all.

So ... when you lose your mind, you Google for it?

[GreyGeek]

So ... when you lose your mind, you Google for it?

Yup! That's a cool graphic. Is it a logo for a new Google offering or did you just whip it up for me?

[SecretCode]

I whipped it up just for you ... a few years ago

[GreyGeek]

Mucho Gracias!!! :cool:

[michaelferrie]

There is a good community for Kubuntu, I have no idea why its so far down the list on Distro.... I have found it much better to use than gnome, gnome used to be a bit of a mess. KDE is a much tidier desktop environment

[GreyGeek]

There is a good community for Kubuntu, I have no idea why its so far down the list on Distro.... I have found it much better to use than gnome, gnome used to be a bit of a mess. KDE is a much tidier desktop environment

The Page Hit Rankings at DistroWatch bears no correlation to distro use or popularity. In fact, more people running Windows visit DistroWatch than those running Linux. You might call it a curiosity index.
When I was running PCLinuxOS between P.93 through the 2007 release, for a year during that period PCLinuxOS was rated "#1" on that site. However, while I frequently ran into folks running Ubuntu, or Mandriva or RedHat or CentOS or SuSE, I rarely ran into someone running PCLOS.

Also, the better and more friendly a distro is the fewer folks you have visiting sites like this asking for help. For 95%+ of the folks who use it, it "just works".

[NickStone]

The Page Hit Rankings at DistroWatch bears no correlation to distro use or popularity. In fact, more people running Windows visit DistroWatch than those running Linux. You might call it a curiosity index.
When I was running PCLinuxOS between P.93 through the 2007 release, for a year during that period PCLinuxOS was rated "#1" on that site. However, while I frequently ran into folks running Ubuntu, or Mandriva or RedHat or CentOS or SuSE, I rarely ran into someone running PCLOS.

Also, the better and more friendly a distro is the fewer folks you have visiting sites like this asking for help. For 95%+ of the folks who use it, it "just works".

Thats interesting! I'd love to know your reasons why you left PCLinuxOS. Thats one of the distros I'm thinking of using when 11.10 gets to end of life.

[GreyGeek]

Thats interesting! I'd love to know your reasons why you left PCLinuxOS. Thats one of the distros I'm thinking of using when 11.10 gets to end of life.

For the same reason I left MEPIS. They are, essentially, one man shows.

I had come to PCLOS from MEPIS, where its developer had to step aside for a while to make money and pay medical bills. During his absence MEPIS slid down hill. I had used PCLOS for over a year when the hurricane roared through Huston, destroying TexStar's home. He stepped away from the project, leaving it in charge of some folks. Almost immediately the quality began to go down hill and the fights over territory went up. I moved to Mandriva. After less than a year with Mandriva I bought a new laptop as a retirement gift. Mandriva's Intel driver wouldn't give acceleration. I worked with the xorg crew by supplying tracebacks from September 2008 to Feb 2009. On a lark I tried Kubuntu 9.04 Alpha. It gave me acceleration immediately. Mandriva had been selecting i815 and Kubuntu selected i915. I've been with Kubuntu every since and, IMO, it is the distro which fits me the best. That is, it has enough automatics to make life easy, but I can jump in and take control anytime I wish using Konsole and not having to plow through two dozen config files to do so.