Kubuntu 11.10 is the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today.

[Guest]

I've been using unix/linux since 1982 (before there was a gui). The last 5 years have brought linux forward by great strides.

IMHO Kubuntu does not receive the merit it deserves and is ahead of the other KDE distros such as:

PCLinuxOS
openSUSE
Fedora
Sabayon
others

Kudos to the Kubuntu team for your hard work and insight!

Given the current state of gnome, Kubuntu just might be the best distro bar none.

Murray

PS Competition between KDE and Gnome is a good thing.

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu 11.10 is the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today.

IMHO Kubuntu does not receive the merit it deserves...

I don't think you will get any arguments on that! When I see on Distrowatch.com that Kubuntu has such a low hit count, it makes me wonder why? I find Kubuntu Linux to be an absolutely wonderful Linux distribution. Here, on my two laptops, it just flat out works - period!

[woodsmoke]

Re: Kubuntu 11.10 is the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today.

Hi,

i agree completely murrayv.

Snowhog, re your ranking comment, I am sure that there are a multitude of reasons why, but I, personally, think that at least part of the reason is that probably a lot of people download the thing but then don't have the patience to really work with all the "strangeness" of KDE and the "cashew" and the activities, and the widgets and such.

And, I must say that I, at least partly, blame the developers for this.

I really do think that they just have done a very poor job of:

a) explaining the big picture as to how things work. And part of that is involved in the "naming" of things like "activities" etc.

Anyone can click a widget and get it on the desktop, but some of them did not work correctly and many of them were not explained correctly or they didn't have complete documentation.

Part of this stems from the inbred proclivity to think "they will figure it out", but also part of it has to be: "If they can't figure it out and I tell them then when they screw up they blame me, so the best route is to just not explain anything".

That, I think, is one reason why the Gnome 3 desktop is so well liked because the Linux people learned on Windblows basically how it works and that translated into Gnome 3. The Linux developers got away with no effort.

I, personally, have written a lot of "instruction books". And, contrary to my writing at the fora I am brief, to the point and understandable.

However....

I, personally, have also attempted several times to "write documentation" for a variety of distros, KDE in general, yada yada...and never received so much as a reply except for one time and the person said, "pick something and go for it".

I did, submitted a small set of instructions and never heard anything and never saw it implemented.

I am sure that they are waiting for a "complete" set of instructions....after all, one cannot go off half cocked even if the gun stays at half cock for years.

When I developed the Calypso desktop the developers said that they would NOT EVEN CONSIDER LOOKING AT IT...because of my "garish" homepage.

Anybody that had such a garish homepage could not, ipso posto factotum, produce ANYthing that was worth them even clicking the arrow to the screenshots and download page.

BUT......THE CHINEESE DOWNLOADED IT .....thousands of times...... hmmmm

But, then, THEY are not "real" Linux developers....they are....those inscrutible orientals...not REAL coders.

That was why a couple of men in black showed up on my previous doorstep.

b) The other thing that I think has been done poorly is the plain old "selling" of it. Unfortunately the selling of it also includes the "explaining" of it.

Curiously, I had a dream last night.

And in that dream I was "somewhere" sitting with "some people" and we were working around "something", somewhat in the dark, maybe an office late at night. I, personally, was leaning on "not a bar" but on a "bar" that was also the "Microsoft Surface table"....

As an aside, supposedly, the original "surface" table was demoed for Linux but it never went anywhere.

Anyway, we were visiting, people moving in and out of the light, and I was working on the "bar / surface table" and using Kubuntu on it.

One thing that I distinctly remember doing was that there was an "onscreen" keyboard that I "swept" and "expanded" and then "reconfigured" to fit my hands and angle of my arms and was typing with it, while also sweeping stuff into the plasma desktop folder thing and at the same time talking to someone that was in, I think, Pidgin and we had a video conference thing going on.

A person came by and tapped the table and swiped something with his finger and a "paper" that he had e-mailed me appeared and I "worked" with it for a while, while also talking to people there and also the person on the Pidgin thing.

This was all "very natural"...as if I had been doing it a long time and Kubuntu was so well integrated into the "surface" table that I, and the others used it "naturally".

Somehow, and there were not specifics, but because of the large size of the "surface" table I had several "activities" going on at the same time that I would "sweep" on and off the table, or diagonally, keeping a corner on the surface and later pulling it back, etc.

The sheer size of the surface table / bar greatly EXPANDED the usefulness of the KDE Plasma/Kubuntu setup.

The reason that I keep referring to "bar" is that there was a "padded elbow bar" that surrounded the table, so that one could lean on the pad while reading something or visiting with someone on the other side of the table / bar.

How the dream, particularly, is involved with my comments on "selling" and "explaining" I don't quite know, but they somehow seem connected.

Maybe Canonical could afford to buy a surface table, reload it with various distros and see which distro interacts with the surface in a) the most natural way b) the most VISUAL( in terms of advertising) way and use the table and the distro as an advertising...don't know.

Anyhow, it really does seem to me that the devlopers of Kubuntu, and MOST of the other distros really do not even want to get involved in "advertising" or "selling" or "explaining" their "thing". They are quite content to sit behind the home page, or the forum page, or the wiki and gaze out at all those people and hope that somehow the world will beat a path to their door ....and go back to typing code on the keyboard.

NOTE: I am QUITE aware of the attitude of "I don't care about users I'm doing this because I want to". And that attitude does not care about rankings at DW.

However, it looks as if the exception to this is going to be Canonical itself.

NOTE: I am totally aware of the amount of text that has been produced in the form of pdf, online, etc. "manuals" etc. by various distros, including Kubuntu. And Kubu and the distros are to be CONGRATULAED on all that hard work, ....

But, all that swamp of bits and bytes does not seem to actually "explain" anything well enough to get the world to beat a path to their door.

The Gnome2 interface seems to do it for them though.

Just my thoughts.

woodsmoke

[ScaroDj]

Wow, Mr. Woodsmoke, I stand and clap in acclaim at your words of wisdom.

I have always liked KDE better, but I "had" to switch to Gnome because the Canonical support is there, but I'm just not pleased about how Windows handles the desktop, so, Gnome, and especially now that it has Unity, is unbearable to me.

Regards

[ElZorro]

Now that I have reinstalled 11.10 32bit, after my probs,I must agree----
--- the engineering behind it is superb, credit to ubuntu as well, but KDE is great and the howls of many gnome fans, about unity should make it much more-so, but old habits die hard
Regards
El Zorro

I don't think you will get any arguments on that! When I see on Distrowatch.com that Kubuntu has such a low hit count, it makes me wonder why? I find Kubuntu Linux to be an absolutely wonderful Linux distribution. Here, on my two laptops, it just flat out works - period!

[ardvark71]

What's this Canonical support you do find in this unbearable Gnome/Unity that makes it better for you than KDE

Hi...

ScaroDj may have been, in part, referring to Ubuntu's forum, which is a "wee" bit larger and has more information to offer than KFN. ;-)

Regards...

[otisklt]

Yes Kubuntu/KDE have come a long way.
I must say on my setup... I just loaded AMD Catalyst 12.1 and the multimonitor support is better than it has ever been.
Kubuntu continues to kick ass and I am loving KDE 4 like I used to love KDE 3 but it took some time for 4 to get up to speed.

[GreyGeek]

Kubuntu 11.10 is the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today.

I beg to differ.... Kubuntu 12.04 IS the best KDE desktop on the Planet Earth today!

[ScaroDj]

What's this Canonical support you do find in this unbearable Gnome/Unity that makes it better for you than KDE

First: I really needed Wacom support and Kubuntu didn't have it, I spent about two weeks trying to compile it myself but I couldn't.
Second: Some apps don't/didn't work properly because they are meant to run on GTK+. Just as an example, now I'm trying to run Wings3D and it completely messes up the input over all the desktop functions.
Third: As ardvark71 said, for all the answers to problem in general you have to go to the Ubuntu forums and many times the solutions do not apply. I blame this to Canonical's support, because I think it would be different if when you visit Ubuntu.com there would be a choice in desktop environment (as if from there you could branch off to Ubuntu-G Ubuntu-K and Ubuntu-X) instead of making it almost impossible for newcomers to find out about Kubuntu, there would be more Kubuntu users.

[GreyGeek]

First: I really needed Wacom support and Kubuntu didn't have it, I spent about two weeks trying to compile it myself but I couldn't.

I ran the wacom Bamboo tablet on Lucid by compiling it. The instructions to do so were straight forward. Where was your problem?

By the way, I moved that wacom tar file to my Kubuntu 12.04 Precise installation and found that it wouldn't compile on Precise. Later I happened to be browsing through the "Input Devices" section of System Settings and saw an icon for "Tablets". I plugged in my Wacom Bamboo tablet and BINGO! It was recognized immediately and all functions were active and working. To test it out I installed "My Paint", written for tablets and it worked perfectly. I found excellent tutorials on YouTube and other sites showing how to draw using a Wacom tablet and My Paint.

Second: Some apps don't/didn't work properly because they are meant to run on GTK+. Just as an example, now I'm trying to run Wings3D and it completely messes up the input over all the desktop functions.

Expect that kind of problem to increase as Ubuntu's desktop diverges more rapidly away from Gnome 2. Also, from what I've read, the KDE and Gnome devs aren't working together like they used to, so compatibility may decline. That's why, over a year ago, I decided to use KDE apps when ever possible.

Third: As ardvark71 said, for all the answers to problem in general you have to go to the Ubuntu forums and many times the solutions do not apply. I blame this to Canonical's support, because I think it would be different if when you visit Ubuntu.com there would be a choice in desktop environment (as if from there you could branch off to Ubuntu-G Ubuntu-K and Ubuntu-X) instead of making it almost impossible for newcomers to find out about Kubuntu, there would be more Kubuntu users.

The Ubuntu forum has Kubuntu sections. As far as how many Kubuntu users there are or could be neither you, nor I, nor anyone else for that matter knows exactly how many there are, or could be. Obviously there are a lot, but exactly how many no one can say, even with download counts. I download only one copy of an iso but use it repeatedly to install Kubuntu on many machines.

Also, my first love is KDE4. Kubuntu is just the most convenient and, IMO, best carrier for KDE4. Others see other distros as a better horse for KDE4 to ride on. While writing this post I am using, as a guest OS, the new Plasma desktop that will be riding on the new KDE Spark tablet. it is called "Balsam Pro 12.1". I must say that Balsam is an excellent KDE4 representative, and that the distro as a whole is very well polished. It is a 3.7Gb download, but with the "Start disk" feature in VB it was an easy setup and install. I will report on it in another thread late.

[Alocrius]

I have become a convert after recently downloading kubuntu 11.10 (linux virgin). I knew microsoft was evil but I game and was aware there would be problems.. I just watched the movie Revolutionary OS, I have a ubuntu guide book on the way, etc.. etc.. I like what I'm seeing. I consider myself a power-user without actually being a coder. I build pc's as a hobby, troubleshooting, optimizing, oc'ing, tweaking, I also tinker with modding for pc games.. I am not a professional but far from helpless. I must admit in gentler words than I feel, I am "astounded" that an operating system of this sophistication seems to be dropped off with total disregard for the average computer user who will probably, sooner or later, be very interested in a free "fully functional" os. I understand my revelation is a bit passe... but it's painfully obvious that there is a huuuuugely unnecessary disconnect between linux and the mainstream.

I have been scouring the web for several days now just to get the most basic information and not one shred of it assumes your one of the millions of people who surely don't have a computer engineering degree but might in spite of this gross inadequacy possibly consider speculating about the merest possibility of tentatively, experimentally of course, if even only theoretically, previewing a linux os. Way too much (passive)condescension with the instructions, should it be so hard to assume no previous exposure on the part of the user? For instance... dvd playback, obviously a major function.. HA! good luck average computer user.. will take average joe days to figure that basic function out alone and he will abdicate before realizing the potential of the os.

The dvd playback problem alone is deep and storied, but the list goes on.. but I need not continue. The command line isn't as inaccessible as it's portrayed to be, its just not clearly explained in presentation. Its not some god damned mystical weapon that you need to have had a vision to wield. The average user will have several major functions he will need access to to get up and running, setting up profiles, installing software. It could all be summarily explained in, I imagine a few condensed pages, but is it... IS IT ANYWHERE? And if it is why isn't a link to said critical information plainly presented in the same place the os download is. At least the basics, pertaining to accessing the most basic features. A command line survival guide. I know all the info is distributed freely out amongst the interwebz but I have seen it and its all from 2006, hopelessly dated and obscure in implementation. Linux is taking planned obsolescence to the next level. Very strange so far. I am giving up on trying to run kubuntu from my usb. What a pipedream that was. Having gotten all my griping out of the way now, this os is "not so obviously" a masterpiece that is revolutionizing the way I'm going to use a computer forever. Installing was a bit amazing as kubuntu automatically recognized ALL my hardware and loaded the appropriate drivers. Everything worked on a new build. Still trying to get over that so there are some huge positives as well. I don't doubt I'll find the critical information I'm missing and demystify it eventually, just can't believe the inhumanity of presentation. Kubuntu is not for humans yet as touted. Please don't begrudge me my frustration. I have well earned it.

[james147]

I have been scouring the web for several days now just to get the most basic information and not one shred of it assumes your one of the millions of people who surely don't have a computer engineering degree

Really? I just need to search for "ubuntu + problem" and it normally finds a solution in not to hard to understand instructions. This normally takes me to one of that pages at ubuntu documentation, which is fairly well written and not to technical.

For instance... dvd playback, obviously a major function.. HA! good luck average computer user.. will take average joe days to figure that basic function out alone and he will abdicate before realizing the potential of the os.

First hit on google for "ubuntu dvd"... although doesn't kubuntu offer to auto download the needed packages when you launch the appropriate application these days (ie dragon player or amarok)?

Now, I know these searches are for ubuntu and not kubuntu, but that's one of the problems with kubuntu being a minor part of ubuntu, most guides and tutorials and documentation of for ubuntu, but normally applies equally well to kubuntu.

Also, have you tried the help application in kubuntu? It describes how to use kubuntu and provides links to where you can get more help.

If you have any specific ideas on how to improve things then we encourage you to post the ideas for the kubuntu devs to see (or better yet, help make the changes happen). See here for more info, mailing list or irc is probably the better way to contact the developers.

[Alocrius]

You must have the magic touch james147, I have spent hours searching, installing packages, following obsolete instructions trying to get this or that to work and inevitably someone comes along in the comments and says "you don't have to do all that!!! just type in -e kdjda" and voila! Why don't they put the voila on the front side. For example, the inevitable app hang.. which after searching some obscure tech site, type xkill in the terminal and a nifty skull and bones appears. Why is the basic functionality "hidden?" Now that many people are computer literate in an increasingly fascist world people are sympathetic to an open source os that gives you more control. It just makes sense in every conceivable way.. If linux devs could take the time to write a useful basic guide explaining everything the average user will need to know (and I know they know EXACTLY what human beings who use computers want to do with them)... and disseminate it alongside the free distro (yeah I said seminate) Microsoft could kiss %50 of their clientele goodbye. Instead they put out marginally useful books for sale that I don't think further "the cause." I would forcefully tell, nay show, every last person I know about kubuntu if it weren't such a pita. And a lot of those people I forcefully showed would show others, so on and so forth. But nobody's going to be showing nobody anything because its a pain in the ass. Linux is obviously a great idea who's time has apparently been coming for some time, yet has it arrived? It just seems like such a tragic waste. If it were demystified and legit support and documentation existed (ala Red Hat? i don't know business so much) as the financial side MS would be toast and linux devs could be millionaires. I would gladly shell out $60(open invitation, I have paypal) to have somebody hold my hand while getting all the functionality I need. Might not sound like it but I love this stuff and would do it for fun regardless but I keep having this nagging intuition in the back of my mind that says Linus Torvalds needs an ass kicking, especially now that I know he's worth 150 million but can't afford to write a free cheat sheet for his free os. How in the hell are the African children figuring this stuff out if I can't? What do they have that I don't? This could all just be the beer talking so take it with a grain of yeast.

[Alocrius]

just enjoying the humor of it all

not to mention the default install of kubuntu gives you no room for installing the inevitable support packages you will need to gain the basic functionality humanoids expect from a thousands of dollars computer. I just thought that was a highlight of my experience that i wanted to share. Install kubuntu but then install it again after 15 minutes because your out of space moron!

[Alocrius]

Also james your link to "ubuntu dvd" first tells me to install one file to solve the problem and then proceeds to tell me to install a completely different file for the same problem. Then it assumes I know the difference between a command line and the terminal. Jesus does anybody here see the disconnect? Look at the page and tell me its not confusing. It's this compounding confusion that is going to burn-out the prospective customer. When your installing software you want straight-forward instructions that leave little guess-work. I really don't need my Sherlockian powers of deduction challenged after the challenge of having built a new computer.