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**Snowhog** · Sep 18, 2011, 09:45 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Welcome to the wonderful (if at times, wacky) world of Linux and Kubuntu. If one is newly introduced to Linux, and one is willing and able to take it slowly and don't expect it all to 'just work' the first time out of the box, you will find Linux/Kubuntu a very good alternative to Windows.

I am surprised that you opted to begin your adventure into Linux with a development version of Kubuntu. I would have opted to start with 11.04 Natty Narwhal, but ....

If you have questions, please limit them to a single topic, as you will be better served by the members here. A post that contains a hodge-podge of issues is hard to respond to, and less likely to get attention.

**bra|10n** · Sep 24, 2011, 02:50 AM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Thanks Snowhog...
I had been an Ubuntu devotee previously (and not windows) but I couldn't embrace Unity in it's current form.
I fully agree however with Ubuntu's decision to part with Gnome and wish Canonical every success in their quest

I had tried KDE via openSUSE 8.? years back but found package management (Yast) and their repo's more than a handful.
I recently read praise on how far Kubuntu had come (2nd best implementation?) arguable, and since I was looking for a fresh distro thought why not?
With regard to 11.10 well I guess I didn't give it a second thought... With the new laptop and now 4GB of ram I needed a 64bit disc anyhow.

Update:
With regard to this model laptop I found solutions to a couple of points noted above, namely the Plymouth issue (text) and the acer_wmi module and the screen brightness controls not working...
Changing to IDE mode in BIOS from AHCI fixed both the Plymouth boot screen issue and eliminated the acer_wmi module error.
Adding acpi_osi=Linux to the grub file gave control over screen brightness via the keyboard, but alas no on-screen display or control via the battery icon slider widget.

So it's all good. Laptop and Kubuntu 11.10 working well, me

**GreyGeek** · Sep 24, 2011, 09:07 AM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

bra|10n,
Did you notice how similar the various dialogs in the Win7 install sequence look to the Kubuntu install dialogs? In some cases they appear to be identical copies. So, too, with the general appearance and operation of Win7. KDE4 was out before VISTA, and MS created Win7 in a rush (by, I believe, by putting on lipstick and some new dresses on XP) to restore consumer confidence in Windows. A LOT of time was spent developing VISTA (a.k.a. "Longhorn") and only a few months "developing" Win7. To spend years on VISTA, only to have it be junk, and only a few months on Win7, which appears to be about as stable as XP, strengthens the view that Win7 is XP in new clothes and makeup.

Anyway, last Xmas I purchased an Acer Aspire One D0521. It is an awesome little machine and runs Kubuntu perfectly. I used the WABI 10.04 version the first time but found that kernel upgrades break the grub. When the 12.04 LTS is released I am moving her box to that.

**bra|10n** · Sep 24, 2011, 05:57 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Hi GreyGeek...
I'm feeling a little over-sensitive with the impression that I was a previous Windows user

. Well I did use W98 on my first box...
This little laptop came with W7 pre-installed so I didn't experience an install. But interesting comments nevertheless... And you gotta love a subtle lipstick reference,... insert "pig_style" here for full visuals

Personally though I found W7's interface very awkward. I disagree that W7 was similar to that in Linux generally.
I literally went from window to window looking for basic sys-info. Admittedly my experience lasted a mere 30mins.
Not in anyway a fair appraisal I admit. But enough time to realise what I wanted was "transparency".
An o/s that gave me the info I wanted and left me in full control. Though not always a good thing in my case...

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Anyway, last Xmas I purchased an Acer Aspire One D0521. It is an awesome little machine and runs Kubuntu perfectly. I used the WABI 10.04 version the first time but found that kernel upgrades break the grub. When the 12.04 LTS is released I am moving her box to that.

I'm interested in understanding more about the fixes I've implemented via Google regarding changing disk control to IDE in BIOS and "acpi_osi-Linux" grub entry, and the improvements both have made. My basic understanding and concern is that auto detection is supported in Linux and included in newer kernels, and since I installed Kubuntu in that mode should I have needed to do either?

**SteveRiley** · Sep 24, 2011, 08:33 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Originally posted by GreyGeek

MS created Win7 in a rush (by, I believe, by putting on lipstick and some new dresses on XP) to restore consumer confidence in Windows. A LOT of time was spent developing VISTA (a.k.a. "Longhorn") and only a few months "developing" Win7. To spend years on VISTA, only to have it be junk, and only a few months on Win7, which appears to be about as stable as XP, strengthens the view that Win7 is XP in new clothes and makeup.

...what I have to say here is off-topic; however, I request a brief indulgence...

GreyGeek, over the few months I've been participating in this forum, I've come to appreciate your wisdom and the helpful advice you provide so many. However, in this particular instance, I'd like to encourage you to rethink your assumptions about the Vista and Windows 7 development cycles. Remember, I was at Microsoft during both launches and worked very closely with the Windows group, so I'm intimately familiar with the somewhat tangled history.

The company had grand plans for Longhorn. In many ways, Longhorn was a near-complete departure from the past. Unfortunately, Microsoft failed to anticipate the structural and organizational changes required to fulfill its vision. Features were cut, developers needed lots of retraining, politics and personalities interfered, and ultimately the project stalled to the point where it had to essentially start over. By that time the product was so late that several major outstanding bugs got shoved into "won't fix" and we all know the result: while Vista had some great technology, its implementation quality suffered severely.

After Vista's release, the necessary structural and organizational changes were imposed from the very top. The Windows division established a quality bar, not a release date, as its primary goal. Windows 7 is the result of that: it is, actually, most of what Vista was supposed to have been. The reason for the short interval between Vista and 7 releases is because the product groups were tasked to focus on fixing what was broken and finishing some of what got cut. Contrary to what you mentioned, Windows 7 contains very little code from XP: they are fundamentally different code bases. (So different, in fact, that some XP programs won't run except in a special "XP mode," which is a full XP virtual machine.)

I write this not to make an enemy of you, but instead to provide some insight that often seems go overlooked by a lot of folks. I've learned a fair amount about Kubuntu and KDE by reading through your vast collection of posts on these forums and look forward to continuing to do so. Thanks for reading.

--Steve

**bra|10n** · Sep 24, 2011, 09:35 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Code:

...what I have to say here is off-topic; however, I request a brief indulgence...

@steveriley
Absolutely. And not so off topic, after all this laptop did come with W7

Your past? association with Microsoft got me thinking about your first reaction to Kubuntu in fact.

I write this not to make an enemy of you, but instead to provide some insight that often seems go overlooked by a lot of folks. I've learned a fair amount about Kubuntu and KDE by reading through your vast collection of posts on these forums and look forward to continuing to do so. Thanks for reading.

Indeed. I agree one gets a certain confidence in reading GreyGeek's posts, and all users of this forum are very fortunate to have the benefit of his wisdom.

EDITED by GG to replace "code" with "quote" so paragraph will wrap

**GreyGeek** · Sep 24, 2011, 10:13 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Steve,
I appreciate your input and I'm interested in your experiences at Microsoft. Did you program on either XP, VISTA or Win7?

I made a living programming & teaching using Windows from 1980, when I bought my first IBM PC, to about 2005, when I switched from using MS VS & Qt to Linux/Kate/KDbg/Qt, which was 2 to 5 times faster in the edit/compile/test cycle that MS+Qt was. I used Qt under Linux for development for the last three years of my programming career. Where I worked was a Windows shop those last three years, because of a new governor, but I'd write Qt code which included compiler defines to select appropriate code & syntax for Oracle or PostgreSQL connections. I'd test on PostgreSQL and when things worked the way my client wanted them I'd move the source to XP and compile using MS VC, then deploy the libraries and executables to the LAN for clerical use, where it ran against our Oracle back end. Coding with Qt is a blast!

So, while I consider XP to be the best OS Microsoft has released, my experience with Win7 on my wife's Acer gives me the impression that it is at least as good as XP. Considering that Win7 was released June 22, 2009, less than three years after VISTA was released, on Jan 30, 2007, I find it difficult to believe that Microsoft could have fielded an OS as polished as Win7 in such a short time, considering how long it took them to write VISTA. I remember reading emails between Longhorn developers and Jim Alchin (from the Microsoft vs Combs trial) which began by the Longhorn coders returning from the OS X launch event. They wrote that "OS X is what Longhorn was supposed to be". You probably know better than I what Jim Allchin's reply was, CC'd up the management chain, but it was apparently caustic enough of VISTA to lead to his early "retirement".

Windows 7 is the result of that: it is, actually, most of what Vista was supposed to have been. The reason for the short interval between Vista and 7 releases is because the product groups were tasked to focus on fixing what was broken and finishing some of what got cut. Contrary to what you mentioned, Windows 7 contains very little code from XP: they are fundamentally different code bases.

That is an astounding statement! At work the IT staff purchased 3 Dell high end laptop with the full enterprise version of VISTA installed. Over a period of 3 months they worked with all three machines testing VISTA out and none of them could get any machine to run for more than 30-60 minutes without crashing. They gave one to me and I did a fresh install of VISTA. It crashed several times in several areas in the next hour and eventually locked up by the end of the first hour I tried to use it. I couldn't even get any dev tools installed on it. It was absolutely the worst MS OS I have ever used, and that included WinME or Win95.

So in "fixing what was broken" you're saying that Win7 IS Longhorn fixed up? I'm surprised, even stunned, but I'll take your word for it. However, I've helped several folks complete their Win7 install and in comparing the sequence of install screens in Kubuntu 4.x and Win7 they are remarkable similar.

Make an enemy of me for disagreeing with me? Na. There's no penalty for disagreeing with me, and you'd wouldn't be the first.

The only things not allowed on this forum, besides unnecessary vulgarity, are personal attacks.

Welcome to Kubuntu and this forum. 8)

**SteveRiley** · Sep 25, 2011, 12:09 AM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Steve,
I appreciate your input and I'm interested in your experiences at Microsoft. Did you program on either XP, VISTA or Win7?

No, GrayGeek, I wasn't an SDE. I spent three years in the telecommunications practice of Microsoft Consulting Services followed by eight years in the Trustworthy Computing Group. I lived through Nimda, Code Red, Slammer, Blaster -- the ceaseless onslaught that forced Microsoft to start getting its act together with respect to security. (If only original XP would have shipped with the firewall enabled by default, a lot of the devastation caused by those massive worms wouldn't have happened!) I spent a fair amount of my time traveling the world, spoke at numerous events, advised security officers and administrators, had a pretty good security blog going for a while, even co-authored a Windows security book (for which I'm still receiving royalty checks, six years after publication, heh).

Originally posted by GreyGeek

I made a living programming & teaching using Windows from 1980, when I bought my first IBM PC, to about 2005, when I switched from using MS VS & Qt to Linux/Kate/KDbg/Qt, which was 2 to 5 times faster in the edit/compile/test cycle that MS+Qt was. I used Qt under Linux for development for the last three years of my programming career.... Coding with Qt is a blast!

Give me an architectural challenge and a whiteboard, I'm in my element. Tell me to write a program -- well, I'll leave the coding to experts like yourself

... Although I did push through a design change in Windows 7 before release that fixed a minor crypto usage error.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

So, while I consider XP to be the best OS Microsoft has released, my experience with Win7 on my wife's Acer gives me the impression that it is at least as good as XP. Considering that Win7 was released June 22, 2009, less than three years after VISTA was released, on Jan 30, 2007, I find it difficult to believe that Microsoft could have fielded an OS as polished as Win7 in such a short time, considering how long it took them to write VISTA.

At work the IT staff purchased 3 Dell high end laptop with the full enterprise version of VISTA installed. Over a period of 3 months they worked with all three machines testing VISTA out and none of them could get any machine to run for more than 30-60 minutes without crashing. They gave one to me and I did a fresh install of VISTA. It crashed several times in several areas in the next hour and eventually locked up by the end of the first hour I tried to use it. I couldn't even get any dev tools installed on it. It was absolutely the worst MS OS I have ever used, and that included WinME or Win95.

So in "fixing what was broken" you're saying that Win7 IS Longhorn fixed up? I'm surprised, even stunned, but I'll take your word for it.

(rearranged a bit of what you wrote)

XP with SP 3 was good stuff. But it was showing its age. It really was designed for a different time, under different assumptions about usage and exposure, and it was becoming increasingly challenging to keep it secure. Longhorn's grand vision was to start from a blank slate, design a strong operating system that could withstand attack, and truly show new innovation (SQL Server as a file system? Still a fabulous idea, IMHO.) The work proved to be too much all at once. Vista emerged from the famous "Longhorn reset" and shows evidence of being rushed to market, despite the reset's attempt to avoid exactly that. Most of the work done between XP SP 2 and the Longhorn reset got shelved; the bake time for the Vista that released wasn't really that long. The experience you describe with your three Dells is, alas, typical.

It's probably a bit of a stretch to say "Windows 7 is Longhorn fixed up." Windows 7 is a combination of voluminous feedback about what Vista got wrong, finishing and adding several features and capabilities that were cut during the reset, and an overall improvement in software engineering and testing. Microsoft created an amazing discipline for Windows 7 testing.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Make an enemy of me for disagreeing with me? Na. There's no penalty for disagreeing with me, and you'd wouldn't be the first.

The only things not allowed on this forum, besides unnecessary vulgarity, are personal attacks.

It's too easy to misinterpret one's motives when all you can see is some text. Although I suspect you've been around the Internet (and BBS systems -- click the link, young folk) long enough to differentiate between challenging an idea and attacking a person. I might challenge ideas here and there, but attacking people who take the time to participate on message boards? No way. I reserve my vitriol (sometimes, yes, with vulgarity, haha) for lambasting such fsck-wads as in this video. OK, now that I've brought politics into this thread, I guess I'm fair game

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Welcome to Kubuntu and this forum. 8)

Thanks! It's a pleasure to be here.

**GreyGeek** · Sep 25, 2011, 11:19 AM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Wow, so you are THAT "Steve Riley" who co-authored one of the best books on Windows network security written! And also star of stage and screen! 8)

Are you still working with Amazon?

While I am without a doubt old enough to have used a BBS, you must hold your age well, because in that video you don't look old enough to have used a BBS, which was my first "networking" experience back in 1978, running the first Apple ][+ sold in the state of Nebraska. Then it was on to CompuServe, and finally the wild and wooly Internet!

We have a great "Social Conversations" section on this forum, which I spend entirely too much time on, but it is a great diversion at times. When I was first eligible to vote for in a presidential election I was told that if I voted for Goldwater there would be war. They were right. I voted for Goldwater and war happened. I used to vote a straight Republican ticket. But, in 1994, my favorite candidate, who was also leading in the polls at the time, wasn't invited to the "debates" in Atlanta. When he arrived he was shoved into the back of a cop car and driven around Atlanta for several hours until the debate was over and folks went home. Then he was let out of the car in a seedy part of town, about a mile from the nearest phone both. At that moment I became, and remain, and independent voter. As a one who believes in separation of church and state, and dislikes both crony/cabal capitalism and communism, campaigns against nuclear power and promotes solar power, my social posts aren't always as popular is you might think.

No one is 100% right all the time, nor is anyone 100% wrong all the time. That's why respect for others viewpoints and lifestyles on this forum is paramount. In a way, it is a paraphrase of what Abraham Lincoln wrote in a letter;" "No man wants to be a slave, therefore no man should be a master...". When a person is mocked, ridiculed or personally attacked the attacker is assuming the role of a master. That's one role the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution forbids, despite the behavior of many in Washington right now.

Being that you are a certified expert in Windows, and probably know more about programming that you are willing to admit, I look forward to your participation in this forum and am glad that you are on board!

BTW, do you still contend that firewalls should be dropped?

**SteveRiley** · Sep 25, 2011, 10:22 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Wow, so you are THAT "Steve Riley" who co-authored one of the best books on Windows network security written! And also star of stage and screen!

I am the same. You read my book? I'm honored!

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Are you still working with Amazon?

No, I left there in December 2010 (sigh, not without someone noticing...). Amazon's cloud computing is amazing stuff, their technological capabilities continue to awe me. Late last year, though, I wanted to make a change and I found out about a fascinating position that was literally too neat to pass up.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

While I am without a doubt old enough to have used a BBS, you must hold your age well, because in that video you don't look old enough to have used a BBS

That video was shot moments after my flight of 14 hours landed in Sydney for TechEd Australia 2008. I was 42 then.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

my first "networking" experience back in 1978, running the first Apple ][+ sold in the state of Nebraska. Then it was on to CompuServe, and finally the wild and wooly Internet!

When I was 17 I spent $350 on a 1200-baud modem at the Micro Center in Columbus, Ohio. Filled with anticipation at being able to -- finally! -- see text scroll faster than I could read, I headed directly home. The road dipped a little bit; some fog in the tiny valley concealed a dog that I struck hard. I immediately got out of the car, stupidly left it also semi-hidden in the fog (with the motor running), and tried to find the wounded animal. No such luck. I moped home, pitched the modem on the floor, and cried for an hour. Eventually I connected it and proceeded to enroll in CompuServe. I still remember my seven-digit (not nine, haha!) P,PN to this day.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

in 1994, my favorite candidate, who was also leading in the polls at the time, wasn't invited to the "debates" in Atlanta.

Well, I suppose you probably have already figured out that Alan Keyes wasn't, ah, one of my favorites

Originally posted by GreyGeek

As a one who believes in separation of church and state, and dislikes both crony/cabal capitalism and communism, campaigns against nuclear power and promotes solar power

Well, I'm in agreement with you on some of these...

Originally posted by GreyGeek

BTW, do you still contend that firewalls should be dropped?

Wow, you have done your research. My general position is that security belongs as close as possible to the thing that needs protection. That's why I'm a strong proponent of user-controlled rights-management systems (not to be confused with digital rights management a la the RIAA). If a data object can protect itself and express its own access controls, that frees me from having to worry about the security or the health of the container. I'm also an advocate of host-based firewalls: I saw first-hand how, when Microsoft enabled it by default in XP SP 2, what a difference such a small change can make. As far as old-style perimeter defense thinking goes, I still contend such designs have outlived their usefulness. The concepts I described in my deperimeterization post still stand.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

I look forward to your participation in this forum and am glad that you are on board!

Thanks for the opportunity to engage with you in the discussion here. I eagerly anticipate more.

**richb** · Sep 26, 2011, 05:18 AM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

I too just bought an Acer 5750G laptop and installed Kubuntu 11.04. It has been almost perfect. i too have the screen brightness control issue. I have not implemented Plymouth. The only other issue is that suspend to ram sometimes fails to return. It is more reliable if no applications are running.

The only other issue is the Optimus graphics. The nVidia card cannot be used in Linux, although integrated Intel card works quite well with desktop effects and is very fast. I have not been able to get the Bumblebee solution to work for using the nVidia card.

All in all I am very pleased with the 5750G and Kubuntu 11.04/

**bra|10n** · Sep 26, 2011, 05:15 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

Hi richb,

I'm glad things are working well for you on your awesome little machine

I have had no issues with suspend at all with a login prompt asking for a password after wake on every occasion.
When you say you haven't implemented Plymouth do you mean you uninstalled it?

The only other issue is the Optimus graphics. The nVidia card cannot be used in Linux, although integrated Intel card works quite well with desktop effects and is very fast. I have not been able to get the Bumblebee solution to work for using the nVidia card.

I had not heard of bumblebee or what has now become ironhide, and did a little bit of reading about it. The puzzling thing about this machine is that I appear to have no nvidia graphics

Looking here http://www.acer.com.au/ac/en/AU/cont...l/LX.R9702.173, this appears to be my spec machine, only with a 500GB drive.

**richb** · Sep 26, 2011, 05:27 PM

Re: Acer Aspire 5750 Laptop - Kubuntu 11.10 experience

bra|10n,

Mine is a different model. a 5750G-6496. It has the nVidia card but also an Intel integrated card. Linux only recognizes the Intel card. That is it sees the nVidia but will not use it.
http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/model/LX.RMX02.005. Apparently it is not available in Australia.

I hope you are enjoying yours as well.

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