Things That Just Don't Make Sense

[Greydog]

Rant
It seems that every once in a while the topic of "Linux for The Masses".
As long as a person has to find out how to do something, either by trial and error, or by going on line/Google, etc,. It isn't going to happen.
Case in point:
Last night I wanted to install Google Earth. I down loaded the file, opened the Downloads folder, try to open the file and got the "Pick an Application" dialog box. Open the dialog, click browse, and guess what?
You get a list of folders....not applications....folders.
Now, I've been around Ubuntu since 6.04 (Kubuntu just recently) and have figured out how to get around some and was able to install the program but, someone new would throw up their hands, slink off to their pirated copy of XP, and never look back.
Forget about but,...but.....but Command Line. For the purposes of Linux for the Desktop, that is not a viable answer.
There are a lot of examples of this kind of "little" things that seasoned users are used/ immune to.
Does anyone know why?
And don't get me started about repositories
End Rant

[dibl]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

Nice rant, GD!

Having spent a lot of my career working alongside some really talented software engineers and developers, I do have a theory. These guys are so proficient with their advanced tools and diagnostics, and spend 8+ hours per day deep in the guts of what makes a system or application work, that many of them are really pretty far disconnected from anything that us casual application users typically need. It's not that they don't care, it's just that their daily experience has nothing to do with installing Google Earth, or anything like that. To them, installing Google Earth is as challenging as chewing gum, and they can't understand why anyone would fool around trying to make it easier. In other words, fixing such a "trivial" issue seems like a waste of time, for a developer who doesn't see the issue.

Or so I think ....

[Rog132]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

When i don't know something:

I try to search -> Searching with the: Google earth + Ubuntu => https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleEarth:

Contents

1 Google Earth
2 Screenshots
3 Recommended installation methods
4 Installing the .deb file downloaded from the Google Earth Website
5 Installing from Medibuntu repository
6 Alternative installation method
7 Using make-googleearth-package
8 Hints and Tips
9 Uninstallation
10 Troubleshooting
11 Further Reading

(but maybe i'm the only one ?)


[img width=400 height=293]http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/5272/shortcut5.png[/img]

[img width=400 height=301]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/6392/installgdebi.jpg[/img]

[Greydog]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

[quote=Rog132 ]
When i don't know something:

I try to search -> Searching with the: Google earth + Ubuntu => https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GoogleEarth:

Contents

1 Google Earth
2 Screenshots
3 Recommended installation methods
4 Installing the .deb file downloaded from the Google Earth Website
5 Installing from Medibuntu repository
6 Alternative installation method
7 Using make-googleearth-package
8 Hints and Tips
9 Uninstallation
10 Troubleshooting
11 Further Reading

(but maybe i'm the only one ?)

(quote]
Maybe Google Earth isn't a good example. My main point stands.

[Qqmike]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

Greydog, coincidence that you picked the example you did, "... the 'Pick an Application' dialog box..."
I ran into that just this morning and had the same thought as you. Most users would not have a clue what to do at that point. (I had a clue, but was just too lazy to goof with it this morning!) I think you make a fair point.

[Greydog]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

) I think you make a fair point.

Thanks Qqmike.
It's because of these kinds of things I have left XP (not pirated, BTW ) on my wifes computer. She just wants it to work without learning, sometimes, convoluted ways to do things

[ardvark71]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

She just wants it to work without learning, sometimes, convoluted ways to do things

Hello and thank you. You have illustrated one of the points I have been making about Linux for the past several years.

Regards...

[GreyGeek]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

Those kind of issues are the primary reason why I consider releases between the LTS as "betas" for the next LTS. (I'm not saying they are, I'm just saying that's the way I look at them!) So, I stayed with the 10.4 LTS as my primary OS. I use/test the others as a guest OS in VirtualBox.

Right now, the 10.4 LTS is running this Sony like no computer I've ever run before, with any other distro or version of WinXX.

For example, desktop effects always slowed this Sony down. But, after a recent update, I started noticing desktop effects had been activated, but not by me. I started to go into System Settings to turn it off but inadvertently rolled my mouse thumb wheel and was startled by how quickly the the screen flipped to another desktop. I started playing with it and noticed that all of my apps that require or can use acceleration worked much faster and better. Stellarium was faster and smoother. SecondLife, my canary in the mine for testing video drivers, works better and faster than it ever had in the past. So much so, that had it worked this well when I was a MRPG Ninja fighter I might have won more combats.

Anyway, this three year old Sony notebook just keeps getting sweeter and sweeter. VISTA never ran on it as well as 10.04LTS does now. It gives me the warm fuzzies! 8)

[Qqmike]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

That's funny, Teunis

Reminds me of studying math. Other students would tell me they were impressed with math and admired others who could do it. So excited about my studies and my field, I would seriously respond with something like, It's really no big deal. Anyone can do this stuff. Just learn the rules, play the game. This stuff is easy right now: I impose a non-commutative ring on a topological structure, induce a homology, and isolate certain strong deformation retractions.

[Rog132]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

Basic skills

1. Read the instructions

There are offline documents included. Sometimes they are poor but they are getting better and better with every release cycle.

K > Applications > Help

The Help has Kubuntu System Documentation. There is among other things the "Software Management" chapter:

Learn how manage the software on your system and how to install new software on your system with tools such as KPackageKit, APT, Aptitude, as well as manual installation, managing repositories, and keeping Kubuntu up-to-date.

Install/Uninstall .deb files

The package files associated with Kubuntu have the .deb suffix because of Kubuntu's close relationship with the Debian GNU/Linux distribution. Individual .deb files can be downloaded and installed. Administrative privileges are required to do this.

To install a .deb file, simply Left click on the .deb file to initiate the installation process.

This seems to be the case at here. Left click a deb file -> the installation will start.


2. Search a bit

As the Ubuntu and the KDE are getting new options/applications with every release there are plenty of things that are not included in the offline documents.

This is not the Microsoft with paid technical writers. The Ubuntu and the KDE are offering the user community an opportunity to make better documents.

> https://help.ubuntu.com/community

Welcome to the community documentation for Ubuntu - created by users just like you. This is a reference for Ubuntu-related "Howto" 's, Tips, Tricks, and Hacks.

> http://userbase.kde.org/

UserBase is a Wiki. Please edit pages using the button to share your knowledge (shown on all unprotected pages). The tip that speeds your working will also help someone else.

A printpage /1/ > HOWTO find Kubuntu's manual / reference / guide / documentation / help


/1/ > Topic: Lost Information


RANT

I don't understand people

- who don't want to read the documents.
- who don't want to search the solution for their problems.
- who will whine when there is no "wonder button" solution for their problem.


(walking away - muttering to himself ...)

[blobfish]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

I wonder if making the installation of a .deb easy is such a good idea. That combined with a noob sounds like a wonderful attack vector for a virus. Of course I am a little paranoid now after spending 4 hours trying to recover from a trojan on our townships xp box. It had a fully legal and current version of mcaffe.

[Qqmike]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

Rog132 says, "I don't understand people who don't want to read the documents."

I'm a reader. I'll drill down relentlessly until I drop from exhaustion. However, it seems that many people (if not most people) do not want to read anything about anything, especially technical stuff. I'm amazed at how many people do not even read to research their own medical issues! They don't even keep their own medical records, not even their lab/x-ray reports! And they sure as s* don't care to read about their OS documentation.


This is probably like a lot of things in life and in business. Probably 80% of user problems/stress/expectations/complaints arise from just 20% of the total number of features (that most people like to use). If the GUI were carefully designed to provide push-button help or solutions to that primary 20% list of features, most people would probably be OK and able to use the OS without complaining very much. By that time, they would become somewhat more experienced/advanced users, and when they encountered a less common problem, they might be more inclined to read something, or maybe they would have the confidence to do so on their own.

[The Liquidator]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

I think it is also fair to point out that Google is highly inconsistent in the way it handles linux packaging. Contrast the way in which you have to install (the non-repo version of) Google Earth with Google Chrome in which you:

1. Download the .deb file
2. (important discipline point?) scan for viruses
3. Left click on file
4. Enter password.

Interestingly, the installation makes an entry for the Google Chrome in the software repos so when the system checks for updates you can update chrome automatically without even loading the program.

It's incredibly easy - some would say from the security perspective it's too easy as no-one at Canonical has vetted it, but we can trust Google, can't we?

[Linkmaster]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

I want to put my little 2 cents out here:
[rant]
Concerning adding 'push-buttons' and the like to the operating system, this is in theory a good idea. But it won't satisfy everyone. I know for fact that on a fresh installation of Windows7, all those little help things...I start raging. And try to figure out how to turn them off. And can't. I get mad. Anyways, in Linux, they give you a blank desktop, and no tool tips. Its similar to handing a person a brush[mouse] a paper[desktop] and paint pallete[keyboard] to create what they want. A new painter will need to learn how the different colors work. What Windows does is give you that..magic paper stuff with an image already drawn on it. They also give you a single marker. You color the paper, and the 'hidden' colors show up when you brush the marker over it. If the Linux-devels start to add things to 'make life easier', won't it technically make it harder?
[/rant]

And thats why I rarely install things from .debs. I'd rather install from the repositories or from source, that way I know exactly what I'm doing to my system.

And for me at least, the CLI is an extremely useful thing. I can do with the command line in 4 seconds what it would take me several point-click-move-point-click-etc. to do.

[lcorken]

Re: Things That Just Don't Make Sense

I wouldn't say windows just works. I got tired of hearing my wife cuss about how slow her old XP notebook was getting, So...

We went out and bought her a shiny new ASUS Core I3 notebook with 4G RAM and Win 7. Within an hour the cussing started again. She's not a noob to PCs BTW.

It started when a popup said something about updates. She was reading something on a webpage so she just closed the update message. Couple minutes later windows closed her browser and informed her that it was updating and she couldn't use the computer until it was done. Linux is more considerate of the user than that.

Later she tried to print to our network printer but no print. To shut her up I found the printer driver disk and handed that to her. More cussing. It took me a while to figure out how to get that working. It didn't just work.

What amazes me is that Win7 can't multitask. If windows suddenly desides it has something more important to do it impolitely informs the user to go find something else to do. I would have thought MickeySoft had figured out multitasking by now. At least have some consideration for the user that payed lots of money for it. I may be wrong about this but am not interested in Win7 enough to try to figure it out.

Yes Linux has issues. But so does Windows. Just different kind of problems. I won't go into all the crapware Asus installs on a new machine. So called free one month trials.

Ken's counter rant.