Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Since it doesn't take more than an hour or so to add your preferred apps back in, and I always add a bunch, there really is no reason IMO to do anything but a fresh install

I agree wholeheartedly with you - that's why I did a fresh install on my laptop, after having problems with the update.
Exactly the same problems.

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

According to some folks Natty is not that good! Where did I go wrong?

What's your point, sir? Since all wen't well for you, noone's having problems?

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

According to some folks Natty is not that good! Where did I go wrong?

What's your point, sir? Since all wen't well for you, noone's having problems?

He was making ribald retort to all the 'nay sayers' of 11.04. For him, nothing went wrong. That's the point.

[MoonRise]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

He was making ribald retort to all the 'nay sayers' of 11.04. For him, nothing went wrong. That's the point.

+1

[ccnjim]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

RE:Topic: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks
I was pleased at first with Natty. Amarok finally worked. The default graphics worked. Everything was great. As I started installing all my favorite bleeding edge stuff I started getting pixal corruption with the stock graphics drivers. After installing Nvidias drivers from the website it became worse. I tried different driver releases even betas but the pixel problem wouldn't go away. I was also having random lock-ups where my pc would freeze. My frustration level matched your post title. I decided to go back to Maverick and use Clementine since Amarok didn't work (for me).
Well go figure I re-installed Maverick installed all my usual backports, betas, etc; Amarok even works now!
So rather than googling for fixes to get Natty to work for me...the weather is nice and It's a great day to barbeque.
I think I'll stay with Maverick and skip Natty.

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

According to some folks Natty is not that good! Where did I go wrong?

What's your point, sir? Since all wen't well for you, noone's having problems?

He was making ribald retort to all the 'nay sayers' of 11.04. For him, nothing went wrong. That's the point.

So, you agree that there was no point? A lot of people, myself included, obviously have lots of problems with 11.04 - some people haven't.
Fact is, some basic stuff - like wireless - that worked with 10.10, doesn't work with 11.04. I think that's the point. Things that worked, and still works, are (although nice) irrelevant.
Btw, I find the talk about 'nay-sayers' quite offensive. If someone says "11.04 sucks, I'll stick to Windows", you could maybe call them that. But that hasn't generally been the case.

[el_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Fact is, some basic stuff - like wireless - that worked with 10.10, doesn't work with 11.04. I think that's the point. Things that worked, and still works, are (although nice) irrelevant.

Kernel and X server issues, nothing too new. I don't get why people act surprised when they upgrade in the first month after a release. I tested Kubuntu Natty from Alpha 2 to the release. Went back to elementary OS when I saw that the niggling issues will be put on hold for a while. Other than that, it's not really fair to say Kubuntu sucks, because it is the best implementation of KDE at the moment. Give it a month, try it again, if you're having problems, downgrade the kernel, and you'll be good to go.

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

It was not my intent to offend anyone, but if you were offended, my apologies to you. However, my experience here in KFN is that those who have 'unresolved issues' with any version of Kubuntu tend to express their frustration in a way that 'newbies' to Kubuntu might take as 'global condemnation.' First and foremost, KFN is all about 'helping' members get the most out of Kubuntu Linux. It is also my experience here, that *almost* any problem, properly reported/documented, isn't without a solution. Sometimes the solution(s) isn't/aren't what the user wants, but solutions, nonetheless, are identifiable.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Adding to what Snowhog said, just because some people have troubles (hardware and/or personal knowledge) does not mean that everyone will have problems. In like manner, just because my Natty USB stick slipped onto that HP dv5 like a silk glove doesn't mean that everyone else will find it just as smooth.

So, folks who preface their posts of dispair with "Natty sucks" should also add "for them" because it does not necessarily follow that it would "suck" for everyone else. THAT is the point.

[Snowhog]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

So, folks who preface their posts of dispair with "Natty sucks" should also add "for them" because it does not necessarily follow that it would "suck" for everyone else. THAT is the point.

+googolplex

[Mark]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Many of the issues people have (but not all) with 11.04 aren't kubuntu's fault. In some cases it's kde 4.6
doing the sucking. The device notifier not working with audio cd's is one of them. And that one sucks no matter
what machine you're running.

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

So, folks who preface their posts of dispair with "Natty sucks" should also add "for them"

My God - he got it - he really got it That really IS the point! The OP was upset, and choose an unfortunate name for his post.

But here's the other point: Some people took offence and decided that OP didn't really want any help, and, btw, 'there's no real problem with 11.04'. But there is! For some people! Which they (me included) have stated, again and again.

Other than the OP, though, noone (irc) has stated that 11.04 "sucks". I have some serious issuses, which have forced me to reinstall 10.10 on my laptop. I still have issues with my desktop, but I hope that most of those will go away when I get my new videocard.

For me it's not a big problem anyway - I use very little software apart from the common stuff. But I can tell you that my brother-in-law, who's into HDR photography, and who spent days compiling sw, he's not a happy camper after installing 11.04...

Neither my bil or me is a young, energetic, coder with 36 extra hours a day - I'm 62, he's 54 - we're just computer users who loved 10.10 since it was so good. 11.04 isn't that good - for us, and obviously, for several others.

Btw, someone said that it's stupid to update so soon as we did. Maybe - but if so, aren't the daily update naggers just as stupid?
And "it's not 11.04, it's Kde 4.6.2". Maybe - but isn't this Kde version part of 11.04? (None of my problems, btw, are related to kde - I actually ran 4.6.2 before updating to 11.04).

[/rant]

[el_koraco]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Btw, someone said that it's stupid to update so soon as we did. Maybe - but if so, aren't the daily update naggers just as stupid?
[/rant]

Not stupid, rash, or naive, or sth. The naggers are there to get as many people to upgrade as possible, because that is how the system gets tested for the LTS releases, which are what it's all about, given that it's the only strategy Canonical has for making money. We're pretty much all beta testers. If you want a stable system, wait two months after a new release, or stick to the LTS's.

[gjartin]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Btw, someone said that it's stupid to update so soon as we did. Maybe - but if so, aren't the daily update naggers just as stupid?
[/rant]

Not stupid, rash, or naive, or sth. The naggers are there to get as many people to upgrade as possible, because that is how the system gets tested for the LTS releases, which are what it's all about, given that it's the only strategy Canonical has for making money. We're pretty much all beta testers. If you want a stable system, wait two months after a new release, or stick to the LTS's.

So, it's obviously not stupid to try the update, either. But denying that there are problems - THAT maybe considered as stupid, since problems actually are to be expected
There should, btw, be an easy way to turn off the naggers. Also, btw, I thought that 11.04 was supposed to be an LTS - that doesn't seem to be correct.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Kubuntu 11.04 sucks

Btw, someone said that it's stupid to update so soon as we did. Maybe - but if so, aren't the daily update naggers just as stupid?
[/rant]

Not stupid, rash, or naive, or sth. The naggers are there to get as many people to upgrade as possible, because that is how the system gets tested for the LTS releases, which are what it's all about, given that it's the only strategy Canonical has for making money. We're pretty much all beta testers. If you want a stable system, wait two months after a new release, or stick to the LTS's.

Three computer generations ago (circa 2000 and before) the meaning of "release early, release often" was well known mantra among members of the Linux community. In a quid quo pro for free software community members gladly accepted early release software, knowing that for some of them the earlier the version number the more likely it would break their system, and they did their part by posting bug reports.

As time passed more and more people, unaware of the mantra or its meaning, came into the Linux community and rather than posting bug reports at the appropriate websites they often would post increasingly shrill rants at forums like this. The amazing thing is that many of those complaining came from Microsoft platforms, where they paid good money, and many times a large amount of it, for software that was no better than early version Linux software.

To counter the "release early, release often" component of the Bazaar Development Model, Microsoft introduced the idea of releasing software as "beta" releases, except that customers still had to pay for it. It reduced Microsoft's accountability while still generating revenue. That people would pay for "beta" software still amazes me.

Raymond's central proposition is

that "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow" (which he terms Linus' Law): the more widely available the source code is for public testing, scrutiny, and experimentation, the more rapidly all forms of bugs will be discovered. In contrast, Raymond claims that an inordinate amount of time and energy must be spent hunting for bugs in the Cathedral model, since the working version of the code is available only to a few developers.

Since that thesis was written developers in both camps have devised unit testing procedures and applications that significantly reduce the number of program defects, BUT, and it is a big BUT, the code has to be tested against a HUGE variety of hardware versions. A version of Kubuntu may work great on a particular HP model but the next release of Kubuntu may have problems because of a variety of reasons. The biggest reason is the there is a sliding window of compatibility in which most computers will run well with a version. Computer models released after a distro is released may not work as well as previous models. And, as computers age they may slide out of the compatibility window. The Intel Mobil 4 Serious Express chipset in this 2008 Sony Notebook did not work well with Mandriva 2009 PP release. By February of 2009, the fix had filtered down to the distro developers and Kubuntu 9.04 Alpha gave this notebook excellent acceleration. Since Feb of 2009 Kubuntu has worked flawlessly on this box, as does Natty work on my relative's 2008 HP dv5. However, I harbor no illusions. Sometime in the future one of two things will happen, either this notebook will have a hardware failure which will be cheaper to fix by replacing it, or, its components compatibility will slide out of the compatibility windows.

What causes the compatibility window? Frankly, it is a direct result of Microsoft's still functioning monopoly tilting the playing field. (As long as Microsoft can dictate to PC OEMs what OS they can install on their products an illegal monopoly exists, even if that dictation is powered by ad rebates.) There was a time when chip and peripheral makers products were OS neutral. The specs were public and any OS could write drivers to run them. That was pretty much the situation when I began using Linux in May of 1998. By the time Win95 came out Microsoft had convinced peripheral makers to remove their onboard CPUs (and pocket the savings as profit without reducing price) and rely on the computer's motherboard CPU, which they controlled access to because they had also convinced ($$$) PC OEMs to pre-install Win95 on many (and later ALL) of their computers. These devices became known as WinModems, WinPrinters, etc. because they only worked "out of the box" with Windows. To make matters WORSE, Microsoft also convinced ($$$) them to NOT publish the specifications to their devices, even though Microsoft was given the complete specifications. Linux, BEOS, Unix and other OS makers had to reverse engineer the software to run against the hardware, which took time. So, while Win98 or Win2K or Win7 can run a peripheral "out of the box", Linux users of computers and peripherals sometimes have to wait a bit longer before their favorite distro works well. Sometimes, some features never work as well on Linux as they do on Windows. This is especially true of niche products like my Watcom tablet, because demand is not great and the number of developers and users for such products is low. Go to Watcom's website and search for Linux and you will get no replies. SourceForge has a Linux driver for the Watcom Bamboo tablet. Installing it involves doing about 5 steps each time your kernel is upgraded, and requires you have some developer tools installed on your distro.

To make matters even more difficult for Linux developers and users, PC OEMs often change the chip specifications within a given model as new machines are produced. My relative purchased a Gateway m675prr laptop. A year (2005) later I purchased the SAME model laptop. However, many of his chip drivers had "VER 1.0A" but mine showed "VER 1.1B" or some similar change. There was only a short period of about a year in which both of our laptops could run the same distro "out of the box". Mine was picky at first, and his became picky later. One example of why it was picky is the wireless chip, a Broadcom 4306. At first his wouldn't run, but by the time I got my laptop both would configure without problems, using ndiswrapper and the bcm5wl.sys and cat files. Later, bcm43-fwcutter was included in most distros and automatically picked the firmware out of the chip and created a driver, which installed automatically. Time moved on. Other wireless chips were released, reverse engineered, and added to the distros CDs to enable wireless chips on newer PCs. But, there is a limit to how much can go on a 700 MB CD. To make room for newer chip drivers older chip drivers were moved to the legacy archives. Some of the less common 43** Broadcom chips never had their drivers included on a CD and owners of those chips have always had to obtain their drivers from sources like SourceForge or the best source of all: http://linuxwireless.org/

Microsoft continued to throw roadblocks at Linux. When it became obvious that keeping specification sheets out of the hands of Linux developers didn't have the desired affect Microsoft and its proprietary allies lobbied ($$$) for DRM and other Constitution busting laws to prevent even reverse engineering. Those laws haven't had the effect they'd hoped for because Linux users in the US represent only a small fraction of the total number of Linux users in countries around the world, most of which have no obligation to enforce US laws. Then Microsoft tried a direct frontal attack, funding SCO to sue Linux by using IBM as a proxy. The goal was to hijack ownership of Linux by claiming that Linux was due almost in total to theft of SCO's Unix code. The judge didn't buy it and SCO lost. At about the same time Microsoft made vague threats about 235 patents which Linux supposedly "infringed". It proceeded to "negotiate" IP licenses with small fry corporations whose products incorporated Linux and used some old MS technology, like FAT. In 2006 Novell added smoke and mirrors to the issue by "admitting" (in exchange for $340M US upfront and installments of several tens of millions in subsequent years) that Linux uses MS proprietary IP and Novell agreed to pay Microsoft a ROYALTY for each SUSE Enterprise Linux Server CD it sold. (That's like me "admitting" that you are guilty of murder.) They then agreed to bifurcate the GPL by claiming that those who submitted GPL code to openSUSE and that code was included in SELS were "free" from threat of a Microsoft lawsuit but ALL other GPL developers contributing to openSUSE and ANY OTHER distro were under threat of Microsoft lawsuit for "IP infringement". That claim is a violation of the terms of the GPL and made distributing openSUSE or SUSE illegal, but no one who could afford to take them to court pushed it. The Novell agreement was to last 5 years. Both it and Novell's existence ended. Attachemate purchased Novell and laid off hundreds of developers, including de Icaza's MONO team. Attempts by Attachemate to transfer certain IP to Microsoft was blocked by the courts.

I've given only a brief history of the difficulties of development of software under the GPL, the ONLY reason why free and open software exists at all. And, I have mentioned only a few of the things Microsoft has done to try and kill the Linux and the GPL.

So, as a retired software developer I want to thank everyone who has become part of the Linux community and contributed to its ongoing existence and welfare by contributing bug reports to the appropriate websites. (If you think you've found a bug and don't know where to report it ask here!), and encouragement to those who have experienced problems, for what ever reason. This is what builds Linux up and guarantees its continued existence. Childish ranting and overblown accusations or conclusions (if it doesn't work for you it must not work for anyone else) do not contribute to the GPL community. The pun "The beatings will continue until morale improves" makes a joke of the obvious, but the lesson should still be obvious.