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    newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

    Hey there. As stated in the subject, I am a newcomer (potentially) to Linux. If this is the wrong place for this I apologize. I searched the forums (and all over the internet) for my specific issues/questions and most of the threads concurrent to hardware that I saw were here.

    I've heard about the awesomeness of Linux for years. How the support is, how stable it is, how far superior to M$ it is; but, alike too many out there I've not taken the "plunge" yet. In fact, this week has been the first step I've taken at actually looking into it. Of course, like many others, I would feel more comfortable dual booting the system with Windows (as Windows is all I've used for the last, let's see, 15 years?). I have a couple games that I like to play through windows and am not quite sure how well my particular system and experience would hold up to running Windows through a VM. I've read so many articles and forum posts on dual booting that I think I can find my way through that part. My main issues: using ssd as OS, hdd as storage and partitioning.

    I'll start out by listing the system I currently have shipping, then proceed with my concerns. I tried to research the parts I ordered to make sure they did have support for running Linux. System specs are as follows: AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 motherboard, AMD Phenom II X4 3.4GHz CPU, radeon HD 5830 1GB 256-bit DDR5 GPU, 8GB DDR3 1333 SDRAM, 1TB WD caviar black HDD, 80GB Intel x25-M ssd, LITE-ON blu-ray burner/player, ASUS DVD burner/player.

    I already know that I have to partition the ssd (mainly after installing Windows, disk management -> shrink partition etc.) and then install Kubuntu (after placing the CD in and formatting the space for it right?) Now, for disk optimizing I should leave some unpartitioned space, so I should have a total of 4 partitions right? One for Windows itself, one for the partition that Windows automatically makes (100MB iirc?), one for Linux OS and one for the unpartitioned for ssd optimization. Anyone know if I should allocate these partitions before any OS install (or is there a way to do it through one of the OS')? It's a decent sized ssd just for OS so I was going to do something like 40 gigs for Windows, 20 gigs for Kubuntu, and the rest as unpartitioned (though that seems like a lot of space to leave for optimization). I'm not 100% sure on lining up the blocks and whatnot so I'll need clarification on that.

    Another concern I have is with the hdd for storage, does that drive need to be formatted for use as only storage, and do I need to partition it off respectively for each operating system? I'd really like to have the data accessible to both systems if possible, just as a sense of security. I've read the posts here about moving the swap and /home folders through dolphin to the hdd and read about moving the main Windows files but I'm not clearly understanding their coexistence and how they are accessible from system to system. I've read a couple posts showing how to set up ssd boot drives for single operating systems but not for dual, plus I've never run dual boot before so that's why I'm so unsure about what I'm doing.

    Again, I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this since this IS the 10.10 pre-install forum, maybe it should go to newbie forums? Anyways, thanks in advance to all those who may have knowledge, suggestions, and acceptance. I know the usage of Windows and Linux together is not ideal, but we all have to start somewhere and this is where I choose to start. :P With the limited life of the ssd's I just want to make sure I'm as close to 100% surety as to what I'm doing before I just start hooking stuff up and installing stuff.

    edit: formatted from wall o' text as per request, hope this helps
    In times of trial ask not for a better life.  Instead ask to be better men.

    #2
    Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

    Sorry for the ticking off, but could you perhaps structure your post somewhat to make it easier on the eyes? At the moment it is just a massive block and my brain says DON'T READ
    Once your problem is solved please mark the topic of the first post as SOLVED so others know and can benefit from your experience! / FAQ

    Comment


      #3
      Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

      Welcome darbotic!

      What toad said.

      However, doing a quick scan, it sounds like you want to take 80GB and use 40 for Windows and then I lost you. If 40 for Windows is going to suit you, then use the rest for Kubuntu. Yes, you need to defrag the disk first so that all your files are down in one end. Then you partition it and let Kubuntu figure out how to use its part.

      Because we all seem to learn about both our wants and our needs from our experiences, don't take the first install too seriously. You will probably want to try installing several times. If you can figure it out, or want to fiddle with it, you can gain space by having a smaller swap partition. The traditional suggestion is to use twice the ram size, but a modern setup won't use that much, if any. So 1 GB is plenty.

      Anyway, once you have two partitions for your dual boot, you'll be on your way. Individual questions will get you lots of help here if you get stuck somewhere.



      Comment


        #4
        Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

        Sorry Toad, I put in some line breaks and indents, hopefully you won't mind coming back over it.

        Ole Juul: essentially yes, 40GB for Windows should be plenty for the OS (64-bit W7 Pro), browser, and office, no? Defrag the drive after the Windows install, and shrink the partition to allocate space for Kubuntu.

        The whole idea for me using an ssd is strictly for performance: OS startup and select program initiations (Excel, FF, Avast! antivirus). I plan on disabling hibernate and disk defrag schedulers.

        As far as the swap files go, do I partition that as a separate partition after the Kubuntu install through Kubuntu? Sorry, it's late, I've been working all day and staying up too late doing research on this for a week straight trying to make sure I'm understanding properly.
        In times of trial ask not for a better life.  Instead ask to be better men.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

          No partitioning takes place after install. The installer will guide you through that part. It is probably easier to let it do it automatically, but you can chose manual (I think it's called) as opposed to "guided". Don't worry too much about that since it was just an idea to save a bit of space. Like I said you will probably like to do it several times anyway.

          The ssd sounds cool.

          (Excel, FF, Avast! antivirus). I plan on disabling hibernate and disk defrag schedulers.
          In Linux, you don't run defrag. There is however a file check every 30 something boots or so. You can control that but it's quick and normally there is not much point in fooling with it. As for antivirus, that is normally not run anyway. Sometimes people do it on e-mail attachments and such if they plan to pass them on to a Windows user, but that is just out of concern for them. There is currently no virus available for the enjoyment of Linux users.


          Comment


            #6
            Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

            Thanks for accommodating my brain, darbotic

            Anyway, have a look at point 5 and 6 of the FAQ in my signature.

            With regard to partitioning: Linux doesn't care where you put it, primary or logical partition. There are different philosophies for putting / in its own partition and reserve one extra for /home, but if it is your first foray into the Linux world I'd go for swap (providing you want to suspend/hibernate) and one other partition for everything else. Adjustments can always be made at a later stage.

            HTH
            Once your problem is solved please mark the topic of the first post as SOLVED so others know and can benefit from your experience! / FAQ

            Comment


              #7
              Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

              man all this stuff seems to be a bit (more like a lot) over my head. I consider myself a somewhat knowledgeable computer user (with Windows anyways) but throwing in a ssd for boot (with partition alignment) AND adding a dual boot with an operating system I know absolutely nothing about adds in some complex twists that I'm having a hard time understanding. I found this article https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ho...dowsPartitions that shows you how to partition using GParted off of the LiveCD after Windows is installed, but I still don't understand where I do the partition alignment. Should I boot the LiveCD and use GParted to define partition alignment PRIOR to installing Windows? If I could set up 3 partitions, then align the partitions I can install Windows by reformatting one of the predefined partitions (thereby not messing with the MFT and boot record right?)
              In times of trial ask not for a better life.  Instead ask to be better men.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                Don't worry, it's only over your head until you learn it.

                Think about it like this -- how long has it taken you to accumulate everything you know about running Windows on a PC? Give yourself a break -- I'm sure you can learn everything you need to know about Linux in 1/10 the time it took you to learn Windows.

                Check the links in my signature -- there's a ton of information in there. Regarding SSD alignment, here's what I use: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...226#post373226

                Also, here's my recent experience which is directly applicable to setting up Kubuntu (which is a Debian Linux): http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?82463-Debian-Linux-on-Revodrive-(no-RAID)-Asus-P6X58D-E

                Good luck!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                  And as you can see, you're in good hands

                  Thing is to try and once you get stuck you'll always be able to get help here - and double quick. Even if you only have one computer and render it unbootable you can still use a live CD to check here for help and access the web et al. Obviously it is a good idea to check first whether a live CD works well with your setup
                  Once your problem is solved please mark the topic of the first post as SOLVED so others know and can benefit from your experience! / FAQ

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                    I'd like to suggest that rather than mess with your windows install at this time at all (I'm assuming you boot to the SSD and windows is on it):

                    Why not create a partition on the hard drive (20gb would be plenty) and install linux there. Then, install our bootmanager (grub-pc) to the hard drive and change your boot order in BIOS to boot to the hard drive instead of the SSD. When grub is installed, it should "see" your windows install and let you boot to it via the boot up menu.

                    Using this method will allow you to play with linux but not compromise your windows install in any way. If something goes horribly wrong, you need only switch the boot order back and you're in business again. Once you've played with linux a while and you decide to keep it, you can always redo stuff the way you want it. With 8gb of RAM you really don't need a swap partition at all at this point.

                    You may consider creating 2,3, or even 4 20gb partitions so you can install various other distros and/or desktops and try them out. Other than Kubuntu, I'd suggest PCLinuxOS (they also have a good forum for beginners) and another desktop - Gnome (Ubuntu).

                    As far as your other question re: accessing your other hard drive partitions. You will be able to access them from linux but NTFS is not a good format (for any OS) so once you start using linux for any real stuff - like video editing or whatever - I'd suggest creating some space for your linux data and using ext4, reiserfs, or XFS (depending on the use of the partition). Windows will not be able to read your linux formatted partitions.

                    Please Read Me

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                      Oshun: I understand what you are saying. However, this is going to be on a brand new system. I ordered all the parts from newegg yesterday and they should start arriving Wednesday-ish. So at the moment I am not currently utilizing anything. I currently have 2 computers here at home. One is mainly for my kids to play their games (Disney channel, Club Penguin and other browser games) but the hdd has a lot of space on it. I may take your suggestion and partition that hard drive to try some of the distros, but I don't have an XP disc to reinstall should I run into some problems. On my new system I will have a 1TB hdd so I could partition that out for some linux data. I'll do some research on ext4, reiserfs and xfs so I have a good idea as to what I should use.

                      dibl: I followed both your links to the ocz forums but still couldn't quite understand the guide posted by TortureTest so I did a search there and found the guide posted by vbgunz (which you referred to as finding it too late in your work). It's http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ux-using-fdisk. Like he states, the more I read and learn about all this the stupider I become. I am having a bit of trouble finding how he got the remaining sectors after calculating his total GB. Am I over thinking it? He had 55.9002 GB so how did he come up with the (1,888,048 is remaining sectors) for his MB calculation? Is this displayed in fdisk?

                      So sudo fdisk -luc to find the disk I will be partitioning. Set the heads and sectors (-h 32, -s 32) respectively. I'm going to do 40GB for the first partition for Windows so (2,097,152*40GB) = 83886080 sectors. Subtract 1 as per alignment rule 2 for 83886079 (40GB) for the first partition.

                      20GB for partition 2 for my Kubuntu partition. (2,097,152*20GB)= 41943040 sectors -1 = 41943039

                      There have been suggestions for a partition for a swap partition so I'll go (2,097,152*6GB)= 12582912 sectors -1= 12582911. However, Oshun recommends against a swap partition due to my 8GB of RAM.

                      So I set the first partition by n (new partition), p (primary) and first partition starts at 2048. Enter +83886079 sectors. Press p to see the partitions end sector, add 1 and then divide by 512 to make sure the starting point of the next partition is aligned properly. If so, continue on with the other partitions I've mentioned.

                      Is all this making sense? I feel like I understand it a little bit as I follow that guide and write some numbers down on paper.
                      In times of trial ask not for a better life.  Instead ask to be better men.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                        Do yourself a huge favor and stop thinking about configuring your HDs using fdisk. Yes, it can be done, but why go through the hassle, unless you really want to be 'geekish'? (no offense to all us geeks out there).

                        Download and burn a LiveCD of Gparted version 0.7.1-1. It's the (concidered by many) best partitioning tool available. You'll like it.

                        GParted Home Page
                        Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                        Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                          If you're installing Linux on an SSD, then you have a special problem with partition alignment that is not automatically handled by GParted, so you do have to use fdisk and change the LBA layout (C-H-S) so the partitions start on cylinder boundaries.

                          The only problem I had with vbgunz writeup is that he doesn't mention up front that the default layout for any kind of hard drive or SSD is 255 heads, 63 sectors per track. So he begins with an initial fdisk -l output of 32 heads and 32 sectors per track, and you're not going to see that on your SSD, initially, and so the new guy is kind of lost at the get-go. That's why the other one, even if a bit more technical, is actually a little more complete.

                          But the rest of vbgunz writeup is fine, and very well written to highlight the most important items -- it's only the beginning cylinder for each partition that is important, and how to decrement the ending cylinder by 1 if you're planning on a following partition. If you have an old hard drive laying around, just connect it to your computer and practice on it. As long as you don't mess up on the ID of the drive, you won't hurt anything changing the partition table and LBA layout.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                            I didn't know that GParted doesn't/can't partition SSDs. Hmm.
                            Windows no longer obstructs my view.
                            Using Kubuntu Linux since March 23, 2007.
                            "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: newkomer to linux, new custom pc, need help/suggestions (long)

                              GParted will happily partition your SSD any way you want. And Windows will (so I am told) automatically account for alignment of the beginning partition to the beginning of the first available erase block. But GParted doesn't know about SSD erase blocks, and if you don't attend to the alignment manually, you'll be erasing (overwriting) your SSD exactly twice as much as necessary, thereby cutting its life expectancy in half, as well as slowing performance.

                              Here's some background: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...e-working-life.

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