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**GreyGeek** · Sep 02, 2010, 12:12 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

The qt-sdk is a self-contained version of that tool which contains ALL you need to write qt4 apps. I have installed the -03.bin version and use it. I had to add an item to the menu manually. Do you know how to do that?

Regardless, from the repository or from nokia, both apps work the same. You can delete the sdk install directory and the file you downloaded as well. When you run the repository version check the tools --> options setup for where the app is looking for the qt4 libraries. Make sure it didn't select your sdk libs.

What you will be looking for is under either /usr/lib/qt4 or /usr/lib32/qt4

**motoburn** · Sep 02, 2010, 12:52 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Thank you for the quick response.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

The qt-sdk is a self-contained version of that tool which contains ALL you need to write qt4 apps.

ok, cool. I havent used any IDE's other than VS 2008 so far and am a bit lost. I was afraid the qt-sdk might be missing features or something. Thanks

.. add an item to the menu manually. Do you know how to do that?

no not yet
I can look that up

... When you run the repository version check the tools --> options setup for where the app is looking for the qt4 libraries. Make sure it didn't select your sdk libs.

What you will be looking for is under either /usr/lib/qt4 or /usr/lib32/qt4

the closest thing appears to be Qt4 >> Qt4 Versions

This shows:
2 groups of Qt4 ... stuff

1 was 'Auto-Detected' named: Qt in PATH which all of its items are located in the /usr/bin or /usr/share
2 was 'Manual' named: Qt 4.6.3 OpenSource which all of its items are located in the /home/qtsdk-2010.04

The Qt in PATH is set to the Default Qt Version, so it appears all is well.
I may make an archive of the qtsdk-2010.04 directory then delete it, if I have problems, I can try to extract all the qtskd files back into position...

**GreyGeek** · Sep 02, 2010, 04:18 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Originally posted by motoburn

...
ok, cool. I havent used any IDE's other than VS 2008 so far and am a bit lost. I was afraid the qt-sdk might be missing features or something. Thanks

I used MS VS Visual C++ 6.0 with Qt4 integration for several years before I switched to Qt4 using Kate and Kdbg on Linux to do my development against PostgreSQL. When I got things working the way I wanted I'd copy my source code to the Windows side and recompile using MSVS C++ with Qt4 integration against Oracle. I coded compiler defines to automatically switch between PostgreSQL and Oracle drivers and syntax. I switched to Linux because I could code, compile and test four or five times a day in it, compared with only twice a day on MS VS. My code would compile in 2-4 minutes in Linux and 25-45 minutes in MSVS.

I know...

I retired before qt-creator came out.

It is my experience that QtCreator is superior to MSVS, even with the Qt Integration EXE added to MSVS. It's code completion, tailored specifically to Qt4's libraries, classes, properties and methods is second to none. It is certainly MUCH faster.

.. add an item to the menu manually. Do you know how to do that?

no not yet
I can look that up

Right mouse on the KGear on the left end of the panel at the bottom of the screen. Chose "Menu Editor". In the dialog that pops up navigate to where you want to put your menu item and then click "New Item" in the dialog tool bar and proceed from there.

... When you run the repository version check the tools --> options setup for where the app is looking for the qt4 libraries. Make sure it didn't select your sdk libs.

What you will be looking for is under either /usr/lib/qt4 or /usr/lib32/qt4

the closest thing appears to be Qt4 >> Qt4 Versions

This shows:
2 groups of Qt4 ... stuff

1 was 'Auto-Detected' named: Qt in PATH which all of its items are located in the /usr/bin or /usr/share
2 was 'Manual' named: Qt 4.6.3 OpenSource which all of its items are located in the /home/qtsdk-2010.04

The Qt in PATH is set to the Default Qt Version, so it appears all is well.

Looks like it.

I may make an archive of the qtsdk-2010.04 directory then delete it, if I have problems, I can try to extract all the qtskd files back into position...

That will work because everything is self-contained.

**motoburn** · Sep 02, 2010, 07:47 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Thank you again for the assist.

I noticed a few posts made by you when I was looking for Qt in the forums prior to my post. Could I ask you a few questions about Qt... and software development/engineering in general? I don't want to be a bother.

**GreyGeek** · Sep 02, 2010, 08:31 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

No problem. Be glad to help in what ever way I can.

**motoburn** · Sep 03, 2010, 07:16 AM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Cool. Well,

I am 30 have a wife and 3 kids, no education, and got started in development a few years ago while working at a distribution center using MS Access. Our corporate IT group was not allocated the resources to build some solutions we needed so I started trial and error learning MS Access. Since then, I've discovered that I really enjoy designing databases, and GUI clients.

I've been using vb.net and MySql for about a year now, but really want to get away from MS (that and I've read that VB is viewed as weak and not a 'real' language ... i have no idea). I am doing ok in VS and there is a multitude of on-line resources and friendly communities available for help in VB.

The questions I am facing now:
(by 'best' I'm thinking of speed, natively cross-platform capable, and widely used in corporate setting...)
1. Is C++ the best language to focus on?
2. Is Qt == C++? (I know it uses c++, but when trying to use it with the tutorials at http://www.cprogramming.com I wasn't able to get the tutorial code to compile)
3. Do you recommend a different path than C++?

**GreyGeek** · Sep 03, 2010, 10:02 AM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Originally posted by motoburn

....
Our corporate IT group was not allocated the resources to build some solutions we needed so I started trial and error learning MS Access. Since then, I've discovered that I really enjoy designing databases, and GUI clients.

It IS fun, isn't it! 8) It is also true that "cloud" (i.e. web based) applications will not replace client-server GUI apps any time soon, especially as more is learned about the security aspects of having corporate data on servers housed at commodity priced locations (China, India, Indonesia, and various dictatorship regimes). But, it never hurts to study that niche and do some practice on your own with it. That's where FOSS and Linux come in handy. You can AFFORD to set up a second PC as a "remote"web server, rather than running Apache on your own PC. And, you learn about setting up and running servers in the process.

It's not as much fun when you have to take food out of the mouths of your family to buy tools your employer should have purchased, since they are the prime beneficiary of your work. In your situation that is where FOSS can make a significant difference, both for you and for your employer's bottom line.

Don't feel inadequate about learning a tool "by trial and error" (even with the help of the many excellent books written to explain how to use it in a professional manner) because most degreed developers are self-taught to learn and use MANY more languages and tools than they were taught in college. Over the course of my 40+ year career I have taught myself and used professionally at least a dozen languages. Even having retired two years ago I am currently studying Factor, a modern version of one of my favorite languages, FORTH. I have no plans to use it for any particular project but every language you learn contributes to that well of knowledge you draw upon when you do code a project.

Sometimes, when you learn a language, you can only do so by trail and error because of the lack of adequate documentation or tutorials. That was the situation when I began using Qt with version 3.x. There were only a couple books available at the time and none of them were any good. The Qt3 API and its documentation and simple code snippets were about it. However, once you get a sense and a feel for programming a well documented API is about all you need, and Qt4's API is that! You'll be in a situation and think "There must be a class in the API that can do this." You look for it and usually it is there, even though you never knew beforehand that it was there. When you look for such a class (or function for non OOP languages) and it is not there that is usually an indication that the language needs further development and/or that your use is esoteric and YOU have to write that class or function.

I've been using vb.net and MySql for about a year now, but really want to get away from MS (that and I've read that VB is viewed as weak and not a 'real' language ... i have no idea). I am doing ok in VS and there is a multitude of on-line resources and friendly communities available for help in VB.

It is always good to expand your repertoire of languages, ESPECIALLY if the new languages allows you to escape code or data lock-ins and the expensive treadmill updates that are the only way proprietary houses can maintain their revenue streams.

The questions I am facing now:
(by 'best' I'm thinking of speed, natively cross-platform capable, and widely used in corporate setting...)

Three excellent criteria, if you want to maintain or increase your employability!

1. Is C++ the best language to focus on?
2. Is Qt == C++? (I know it uses c++, but when trying to use it with the tutorials at http://www.cprogramming.com I wasn't able to get the tutorial code to compile)
3. Do you recommend a different path than C++?

Believe me, coding in a language you hate isn't worth the money. Been there. Done that.

Which is best depends upon YOUR needs and preferences, and what the job market is in your area, unless you don't mind picking up your family and belongings and relocating.

The first thing you have to do is choose a tool that keeps you competitive and that you can afford. C++, or most languages or scripting engines, by itself, is not that tool.

For C++ work, IMO, the best tool is Qt4. It IS under the GPL. It is cross-platform. It is VERY RICH in scope and depth. It has a LOT of precast "bricks" from which to build a GUI with a minimum of programming. You can download and install it from ONE source, using ONE file. Quite frankly, in the FOSS world, no other tool comes even close.

For C, the most used tool is the GTK+, even though the Gimp ToolKit has bindings for C++. It is the GUI front end to a lot of languages and scripts. It is under the GPL. It is cross platform with some difficulty and requires apps from at least six other projects, the last time I checked. Each project's files have to be coordinated with the libgtk2.0-bin and -dev libraries, along with the other gtk libraries and tools.

IF you are going to learn GTK+ I recommend that you STAY AWAY from GTK# (GTK-SHARP), which is tied to Mono, the Linux version of .NET. It is not IF but WHEN Microsoft will cut Mono off at the knees, like they did with Silverlight on Apple. Glade is the usual RAD tool for GTK+ but compared to QtCreator Glade is weak.

For all C++ not using Qt4, and for Java, PHP, JavaScript, I recommend the developer's GUI RAD called "Eclipse". Eclipse "classic" has no language plugins, which you must choose to make it useful. There are many plugins available, depending on the language/toolkit you want to use. There is a limited version of Eclipse in the repository, but versions of Eclipse with pre-loaded plugins for specific languages and tools are available to download from here.

Although the recent acquisition of Sun by Oracle puts Java under a cloud, A LOT of applications have been developed in Java and Java based development tools, and knowing how to program in Java should be in your toolbox.

You should also learn HTML coding, PHP coding and Python coding. For the markup languages Kompozer(GTK+ based) or Quanta (Qt4 based) are excellent tools. Python is a cross platform scripting tool with a VM that is often used in the same way as DOS batch files, or as "glue" or binding to tie various tools together. By the way, while evaluating various tools to replace MSVS, I found "Boa-Constructor", a GUI RAD for Python. I almost chose it, but decided against it for the same reasons I decided against GTK+ -- it depended on components built by outside projects and version matching was a constant problem. But, it is a BEAUTIFUL tool and very easy to use in developing GUI apps. Much faster and easier to use than similar Java tools. Python has been slow to develop a momentum in the corporate world, but it is finally getting there. Microsoft used to "support" IronPython, their attempt to "embrace, extend and extinguish" Python, which shows how far it has come in corporate America that Microsoft should attack it!. IronPython never fooled Python developers and no significant number of developers switched to or adopted it. Those who were fooled into believeing that Microsoft "loved" FOSS now have to recode their IronPython stuff to remove the proprietary bits Microsoft no longer supports. I believe that Microsoft will also drop their IronRuby diversion as well, and Ruby coders would do well to stay away or being converting back to regular Ruby now.

Because Oracle bought Sun they also now control MySQL. Expect to see the Open Source parts of MySQL disappear under Oracle proprietary blanket JUST the way the open source Solaris OS disappeared. Oracle is NOT a friend of FOSS.

As far as database back ends are concerned you are in LUCK! The best DB on the planet is freely available and in the repository. It is PostgreSQL 8.4 (the 9.0 version is in beta). Its GUI management tool is pgAdmin, also in the repository. The Qt4-PostgreSQL bindings are also in the repository, making connections from your Qt4 apps to PostgreSQL seamless and transparent. It also has a console based admin tool called psql. PostgreSQL is an OPP relational database tool second to none. It is also MUCH easier to tune than Oracle. Oracle now costs over $250,000/yr just for licenses and limited maintenance via Oracle's TECH web. The admin there has frequently remarked to me that he wished they had gone with PostgreSQL even 12 years ago. They'd be miles ahead and would have spent MILLIONS less.

Having used Oracle's db through 10g, and PostgreSQL's through 8.4, I find that one can do about 90-95% with PostgreSQL what they can do with Oracle without syntax changes. Adding their own objects (PostgreSQL is OOP, Oracle is not), they can add functionality that Oracle has which is missing in PostgreSQL. They can also add functionality which Oracle does not have -- one of the joys of FOSS. Where I retired from we were locked into Oracle, but I developed the apps using Qt4 on Linux (Kate and Kdbg) against PostgreSQL 8.x. When I got things working in Linux the way I wanted I'd copy the source over to my Windows side and recompile using MSVSC++. I used compiler defines to switch between Oracle and PostgreSQL syntax automatically.

The BEST forum for Qt4 developers is QtCentre.
It was almost as good as paid support from Trolltech.

**motoburn** · Sep 03, 2010, 02:06 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

Wow. First off, thank you sincerely for taking the time to respond with such detail!

Originally posted by GreyGeek

In your situation that is where FOSS can make a significant difference, both for you and for your employer's bottom line.

FOSS = "Fully Open Sourced Software" ?

... than they were taught in college.

I have yet to have the resources to seriously plan for college. Do you think I might be employable before I obtain a degree?

The questions I am facing now:
(by 'best' I'm thinking of speed, natively cross-platform capable, and widely used in corporate setting...)

Three excellent criteria, if you want to maintain or increase your employability!

Which is precisely what I am trying to do (i do enjoy my time spent learning and writing the app, then running it and seeing it work! but I also like to eat... and take my kids to the movies...

)

unless you don't mind picking up your family and belongings and relocating.

Sure don't. It would be nice to adventure out (been in TN my whole life)

The first thing you have to do is choose a tool that keeps you competitive and that you can afford. C++, or most languages or scripting engines, by itself, is not that tool.

For C++ work, IMO, the best tool is Qt4. It IS under the GPL. It is cross-platform. It is VERY RICH in scope and depth. It has a LOT of precast "bricks" from which to build a GUI with a minimum of programming. You can download and install it from ONE source, using ONE file. Quite frankly, in the FOSS world, no other tool comes even close.

in corporate settings, how does tool choice take place? is it typically chosen by the entire group, or is it left up to individual developers as long as the compiled end results meets the criteria?

IF you are going to learn GTK+ I recommend that you STAY AWAY from GTK# (GTK-SHARP), which is tied to Mono, the Linux version of .NET. It is not IF but WHEN Microsoft will cut Mono off at the knees, like they did with Silverlight on Apple. Glade is the usual RAD tool for GTK+ but compared to QtCreator Glade is weak.

noted

For all C++ not using Qt4, and for Java, PHP, JavaScript, I recommend the developer's GUI RAD called "Eclipse". Eclipse "classic" has no language plugins, which you must choose to make it useful. There are many plugins available, depending on the language/toolkit you want to use. There is a limited version of Eclipse in the repository, but versions of Eclipse with pre-loaded plugins for specific languages and tools are available to download from here.

I have seen that name alot, and grabbed it when I had Ubuntu installed, but was lost. I will give it another go

Although the recent acquisition of Sun by Oracle puts Java under a cloud, A LOT of applications have been developed in Java and Java based development tools, and knowing how to program in Java should be in your toolbox.

I was afraid of that. I will (in-time) sit down with that one. I am sure there are some good reads out there to help me get started, but I have not looked hard enough yet.

You should also learn HTML coding, PHP coding and Python coding.

I assumed the HTML and PHP part, but had no clue about the Python.

Because Oracle bought Sun they also now control MySQL. Expect to see the Open Source parts of MySQL disappear under Oracle proprietary blanket JUST the way the open source Solaris OS disappeared. Oracle is NOT a friend of FOSS.

ack! that hurts.

As far as database back ends are concerned you are in LUCK! The best DB on the planet is freely available and in the repository. It is PostgreSQL 8.4 (the 9.0 version is in beta). Its GUI management tool is pgAdmin, also in the repository. The Qt4-PostgreSQL bindings are also in the repository, making connections from your Qt4 apps to PostgreSQL seamless and transparent. It also has a console based admin tool called psql. PostgreSQL is an OPP relational database tool second to none. It is also MUCH easier to tune than Oracle. Oracle now costs over $250,000/yr just for licenses and limited maintenance via Oracle's TECH web. The admin there has frequently remarked to me that he wished they had gone with PostgreSQL even 12 years ago. They'd be miles ahead and would have spent MILLIONS less.

that is good to know! .. and I see that it has Windows .msi's available too (my server at work is SBS 2008 and I can't change that anytime soon..) I will start messing with it. I assume it could load data from delimited text files.. so converting from MySql shouldn't be much of a challenge... all my Stored Procs are very basic ...

The BEST forum for Qt4 developers is QtCentre.
It was almost as good as paid support from Trolltech.

bookmarked!

Sir, thank you again for the time you took. It is much appreciated.

I've been reading "C++ GUI Programming with Qt4" and building the samples in Creator. I'm having a blast and feel like it makes sense! (I know it is painfully elementary at this stage, but it excites me to grasp even that part.)

I think I will run with Qt/C++ for now, and add others on as I either have need, or once I feel I have a solid grasp of C++.

You have my gratitude GG

**GreyGeek** · Sep 03, 2010, 04:25 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

FOSS = Free and Open Source Software

... than they were taught in college.

I have yet to have the resources to seriously plan for college. Do you think I might be employable before I obtain a degree?

Sure. Employers will pull employees who show aptitude out of the ranks and give them a chance. Two or three have been given programming jobs where I retired from. Degrees only get you in the door. Some of the worse programmers I've met had college degrees. Once you are in the door its what you DO, not what you DID.

Which is precisely what I am trying to do (i do enjoy my time spent learning and writing the app, then running it and seeing it work! but I also like to eat... and take my kids to the movies...

)

Your family ALWAYS comes first. No code or job is worth loosing your family.

in corporate settings, how does tool choice take place? is it typically chosen by the entire group, or is it left up to individual developers as long as the compiled end results meets the criteria?

It varies widely, depending on the corporate ecosystem. In some environments pointy haired bosses dictate based on the lastest PR memo from Microsoft. Other bosses are true programmers and understand all the ins and outs.

I ran my own computer and criminal forensics consulting business for 15 years and during that time I made the choices. My last client gave me an offer my wife wouldn't let me refuse, but even during that time I had significant input into what tools we would use. Dropping VFP 6.0 for Qt4 was my recommendations, and after I gave the team a run through it was their choice too.

I have seen that name alot, and grabbed it when I had Ubuntu installed, but was lost. I will give it another go

Eclipse is an excellent tool. You know where to find help!

I was afraid of that. I will (in-time) sit down with that one. I am sure there are some good reads out there to help me get started, but I have not looked hard enough yet.

Java is a good language. Not one of my favorites, but better than COBOL!!! The future of Java is in Oracle's hands. As greedy as they are I suspect that right now a LOT of Java and Java based tool users are looking for the exits. Put it on the bottom of your To-Do list and give Oracle a chance to show its true colors.

I assumed the HTML and PHP part, but had no clue about the Python.

I bet you'll LOVE Python.

Originally posted by GreyGeek

Because Oracle bought Sun they also now control MySQL. Expect to see the Open Source parts of MySQL disappear under Oracle proprietary blanket JUST the way the open source Solaris OS disappeared. Oracle is NOT a friend of FOSS.

ack! that hurts.

It's a kick in the teeth of FOSS, alright. >

that is good to know! .. and I see that it has Windows .msi's available too (my server at work is SBS 2008 and I can't change that anytime soon..) I will start messing with it. I assume it could load data from delimited text files.. so converting from MySql shouldn't be much of a challenge... all my Stored Procs are very basic ...

The version of PostgreSQL for windows is very easy to install and use too.

I've been reading "C++ GUI Programming with Qt4" and building the samples in Creator. I'm having a blast and feel like it makes sense! (I know it is painfully elementary at this stage, but it excites me to grasp even that part.)

I think I will run with Qt/C++ for now, and add others on as I either have need, or once I feel I have a solid grasp of C++.

Good choice!

**motoburn** · Sep 03, 2010, 05:11 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

this thread has been most enlightening. I now have a direction. I've been very frustrated lately because I know I want to develop professionally, I know there is (a) Mountain(s) of knowledge I must gain to make this happen, but I didnt really know where to go from here. I hope one day to go to school or at the very least take some courses.

I appreciate the time you've taken. Acts of benevolence are rare.

As for Qt. I'm loving it! I love how it can take all the work put in, and compile it for the platform needed. and even, in some cases, allow me to preview in linux what it will look like in other platforms. As a long time user of custom GUI front-ends, I find it VERY important to have a well laid out 'easy on the eyes' UI. If its clunky, looks like its 15 years old, or is bland and mundane, it gives off the impression that its second rate. GUI's that are laid out with logic, a good
color/ style theme, will give off the impression that its quality it higher. (I of course am not discounting the obvious requirement that the application work properly and efficiently

) this is of course my opinion based on my experiences as a user.

I also am loving C++ so far. It seems to be setup like a relational model. I see the header file containing "parent records" identifying the objects and giving minimal detail about them, then the source file is like "child records" containing detailed information and linking back the parent using a foreign key... I know there is much more to it, but the structure in general is very similar to a well laid out database (something I understand already

) Other languages surely are as well to an extent, but c++ makes it obvious. its like its cleaner..

**GreyGeek** · Sep 03, 2010, 09:19 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

I am glad you found a direction!

In many ways I envy you. I began my programming career learning how to wire the punch board of an IBM 402 tabulator with banana cords in 1959. As things turned out I didn't touch the field until 9 years later in grad school, when I took Fortran IV in a Numerical Analysis class. But, using computers for personal reasons was still 10 years into future. I purchased the first Apple ][+ sold in the state of Nebraska in the summer of 1978. By 1980 the tail was wagging the dog, and I resigned from teaching and began my computer consulting career.

In the 1980's computers were slow, and languages were klutzy. The first language I used to write code for pay was UCSD Pascal running on an Apple ][. I wrote a land leveling program which used 2nd order differential equations. I sold it for $500 each. It found solutions on a quarter section of land in 5 seconds. The commercial version available at the time took about 15 minutes because they were using brute force. Then Turbo Pascal 3.02A and its database lunchbox for Apples came out and I wrote an amortization schedule for banks and businesses. Then I used the DOS based Advanced Revelation (a PICK db clone) to write most of my clients business. (I learned a couple weeks ago that a photographer whom I taught how to program in ARev Basic is STILL using the application to run his photography business. He is Hal Maggiore in Grand Island, NE. He's been using that set of programs for 25 years!) It wasn't until Win95 that GUI RAD tools really took off, but they didn't reach their potential until around 2000.

NOW, Linux and the gcc compiler, along with desktops like KDE 4.5.1 and tools like QtCreator, PostgreSQL, Bazaar, and a host of others, programming is a pure joy! The only thing that is more fun than programming is flying. My envy comes from the fact that I do little programming these days and no flying. But, I can't complain. I've had a good run. Of the nearly dozen other students in grad school in the 60s with me, studying biochemistry, I understand that I am the only one alive now. The others have died of cancers. It seems that many of the chemicals we used to do research then were discovered 20 years later to be carcinogenic. I don't know of anyone who got cancer pounding keys on a keyboard!

Have Fun!

**motoburn** · Sep 03, 2010, 09:34 PM

Re: Is it safe to delete this?

LOL thats fascinating! and I definitely will have fun.

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