Clonezilla restore + GRUB

[kle]

Goal: to install Win XP as a dual boot on a laptop with Lucid 32 bit installed on entire disk. (I am going to have to lend the laptop to somebody who is too old to dare to learn.) I only have system recovery disks and will have to erase entire disk to install.

My Lucid installation is EXACTLY as I want it, and I would rather not have to do it all again, as the details took a lot of time and care.
Could somebody tell me if the following approach is feasible, and if not suggest an alternative that does not require me to be linux expert?

1) Boot from Gparted Live CD and reduce size of Lucid partition to less than half of HD. (Do I have to move Swap as well, so that it is next to Lucid?) At this point, I should have no problem at reboot, right?
2) Boot from Clonezilla Live CD and clone Lucid partition. (Will clonezilla automatically also copy Swap?)
3) install XP from disk (erasing, alas, entire machine)
4) Install Lucid, letting the Live CD partitioner do the repartitioning (making sure that my Kubuntu partition is at least as large as the partition I cloned with Clonezilla.
5) Restore the partition I cloned with clonezilla to the partition where I just installed Kubuntu.

QUESTION: Where/how will GRUB be now? Will I have the master boot record from the partition I cloned - where I only had one system? Or will I still have the one from the dual boot installation I have, in my theoretical example, just overwritten?

I know that my 5 steps sound exorbitantly time-consuming, but most of that time will not require my presence. However, if Grub fails me on reboot, that will be extremely time-consuming.

Would be grateful for advice before I start.

[dibl]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

I don't understand your Step #3 (erase entire machine).

I would think that if you used GParted to resize from the "left", i.e. opening up a space for a new partition #1, then Win XP is going to see that as "C:" and format it and install on it. Of course the MBR will be overwritten and you'll be stuck re-installing Grub when you get your lappie back, but other than that your Kubuntu system should be completely intact.

p.s. don't worry about swap -- just move it to the right along with the Linux partition.

[kle]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

Thanks for your swift reply, Dibl.

That answers my question about the Swap. But then, NEW QUESTION: reinstalling Grub.
I found a procedure described very clearly and comprehensibly on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6fpIe-QnVE
But I would like to double-check. I wonder if there is an updated official "reinstalling Grub" guide?

Do you mean that even if I only have a system recovery disk - (meaning reset to factory ... OEM) the OEM will respect that I have a smaller disk size than what "factory" says I have? (I have little faith in OEMs.) On the other hand: You write I should re-size from the left, I didn't realize that was "allowed". That certainly introduces a new perspective (literally).

[Snowhog]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

"Resizing from the left" needs some clarification.

Once a partition has been created, you can increase/decrease its size (assuming space to do so exists) "from the right end" of the partition. AFAIK, you can not do this from the "left end" (starting position) of the partition. I don't think GParted will allow you to even attempt it.

What GParted will allow you to do, is move the partition. You can even resize and move at the same time.

[kle]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

Thank you, Snowhog, that was clarifying. So I reduce the partition from the right, and then move it. That should leave me with the theoretical possibility that the OEM will install on the left and leave my Lucid in tact.

I am not going ahead with this just yet, not until i am sure that I will be able to rescue/reinstall the Grub MBR.

[dibl]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

RE: Grub 2, Qqmike's tutorial is the best I've seen: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3106368.0

I've used it to make bootable USB sticks with a Grub 2 boot system -- if you follow the guidance, you can install and configure Grub as you need.

RE: OEMs -- I would not bet 2 cents on any support, under any circumstances. I have zero faith in them -- I always assume I am on my own once I've taken delivery of a piece of hardware. Sorry.

Yes, Snowhog is correct, I'd forgotten the little detail regarding moving the left-end of the graphic on Gparted. But -- no worries -- shrink from the right, then slide the entire partition to the right, in order to create new space on the left. It may take some time to execute the re-arrangement -- give it time.

BTW, in case it did not occur to you, you don't need a swap partition to run Windows. If for any reason it is not convenient to keep the swap partition, you can delete it for now, and make it new when you get your computer back and want to run Linux again.

[kle]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

Yes, I'm at work reading Mike's tutorial now. High time, I guess :-))

Somebody suggested I run: mkfs.ntfs hda1 (to encourage the OEM to install itself on the newly created portition)

[dibl]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

I think cloning the OEM partition with clonezilla is a pretty good idea, if it's important to hang onto that for future re-installation. If you do that, then you can delete that partition, which is normally the first one, and expand it to become the new Win XP partition (by sliding the Linux partition(s) to the right as previously suggested).

[GreyGeek]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

....
Do you mean that even if I only have a system recovery disk - (meaning reset to factory ... OEM)
...

Doesn't a "System Recovery Disk" require that the system be ALREADY installed on your HD? They "recover" a Windows system, NOT INSTALL IT. On all recent Windows machines I've seen there is a hidden 5GB, unnamed volume that contains a copy of Windows from which the C: installation can be repaired, and a favorite hiding place for malware which gives it the ability to re-infect after a "recovery" operation. The "System Recovery Disk" aids in that recovery but, if it is like mine, it can not install a Windows OS on an HD that does not have Windows installed.

To install Windows on an HD that does not already have a copy of Windows on it you need a "System Installation Disk", which can be purchased for several hundred dollars from several web stores.

[verndog]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

My new HP Recovery partition and Recovery Disks (3 of them) does in fact install a completely new Windows 7 OS. I just used an old hard drive with nothing on it , and installed Windows 7 from those Recovery Disks.

Maybe it depends on the OEM.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

A set of CDs from the PC OEM that installs Windows on bare metal? Wow! I haven't heard of that in a decade. I've got two Gateways, a Sony and three Acer's whose Recovery Disks DON'T Install Windows, and since I can't remember when on the several dozen laptops and desktops that I've installed Linux on, including recent dv HPs, I have yet to run across a set of PC OEM CDs like you describe. Microsoft went that route to prevent piracy. Are they giving up or do that want to encourage piracy to fight Linux?

[verndog]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

A set of CDs from the PC OEM that installs Windows on bare metal? Wow! I haven't heard of that in a decade. I've got two Gateways, a Sony and three Acer's whose Recovery Disks DON'T Install Windows, and since I can't remember when on the several dozen laptops and desktops that I've installed Linux on, including recent dv HPs, I have yet to run across a set of PC OEM CDs like you describe. Microsoft went that route to prevent piracy. Are they giving up or do that want to encourage piracy to fight Linux?

It only applies for my machine. the slic2 info has to match. If I then took that installed hard drive to another machine it would fail the genuine test.

[GreyGeek]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

...
It only applies for my machine. the slic2 info has to match. If I then took that installed hard drive to another machine it would fail the genuine test.
...

Ok, I see, the 10 PC hardware parameters which form the basis of the GUID would fail when the HD was booted up in a different machine. But, that would be true for any HD with Windows installed on it, wouldn't it? What are the odds that even two supposedly identical make and model PCs have the same firmware version of components in them? IF more than 3 of the 10 had different versions of software burned into their firmware the guid would fail. Wouldn't this mean that the slic2 info from the hardware the OS was installed on was burned onto the CDs at the factory?

[verndog]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

...
It only applies for my machine. the slic2 info has to match. If I then took that installed hard drive to another machine it would fail the genuine test.
...

Ok, I see, the 10 PC hardware parameters which form the basis of the GUID would fail when the HD was booted up in a different machine. But, that would be true for any HD with Windows installed on it, wouldn't it? What are the odds that even two supposedly identical make and model PCs have the same firmware version of components in them? IF more than 3 of the 10 had different versions of software burned into their firmware the guid would fail. Wouldn't this mean that the slic2 info from the hardware the OS was installed on was burned onto the CDs at the factory?

Interesting point. I wish I had a friend that had my same HP computer to try that on.
What I do know is I can only use Windows 7 Home Premium and not Ultra, which I don't need anyway.
by the way, this is the method the hackers use to get away with having a free ride - BIOS modding.

[kle]

Re: Clonezilla restore + GRUB

Verndog and Greygeek: Sorry I haven't been around here for a while. Nor have I gone ahead with trying to make a partition (and doing battle with Grub) on which to install the OEM beside Lucid yet, because when I finally succeeded in explaining that you have to fill in the wallet password each time you use WIFI, the guy decided he would give Kubuntu a try. That was such a victory, that I'm not going to tempt him back into Windows.

I would just like to add a comment to the matter of OEM on "bare metal": True, I only have HP laptops (a Pavilion 6000, a Compaq mini and a G72. And I only had HP OEMs. but I have installed the OEMs over Kubuntu countless times, both XP and WIN7. I have done this every time I wrecked by system since early Gutsy days. Since I needed Win. for a couple of applications, I had double or tripple boots, and experimenting often tore down my Wind. as well. I had no qualms about doing this, since I had very little stuff on the windows, while I had clones of my optimal Kubuntu partitions and I didn't have the know-how to repair rather than install.

Now, it is true I have a full XP licence, (for one machine) which I use to run virtually as a guest on Lucid. Which still leaves me with OEMs and double boots on the others.