Notebook CPU overheating issue

[silentmonkey]

I'm using an ASUS F3JR-AP028C notebook with the following (possibly) relevant hardware:

Intel Core 2 T7200 2.0GHz
2Gb DDR II RAM 667MHZ
ATI x2300 128MB (dedicated RAM)

It came with Vista when I got it mid to late 2007 but installed Kubuntu as a primary OS from day one. I dual booted with Vista for a few months before doing away with it completely and installing Kubuntu on the whole hard drive. I only mention Vista because, from memory, my issue has been a recurring one with Kubuntu and I don't recall having problems with Vista. Perhaps this is relevant.

Anyway, I've always (I think?) had a constant fan noise under Kubuntu. It's pretty loud, too. I have noticed some programs using up a lot more CPU power than I would think they need. I disabled 10.04's 'Desktop Search' completely because that made my CPU far too hot and the fan far too loud. Some programs such as Blogilo do this, too. For example, I took the following screenshot of my desktop system monitor after starting Blogilo:

[img width=271 height=400]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b316/photo_mayhem/t7200.jpg[/img]

But even at idle my CPU temperature is 65C, at minimum. I've tried altering my powersaving options for the CPU to both 'Dynamic (ondemand)' and 'Dynamic (conservative)', which I thought should improve things a little, but the temperature is still >=65C at idle with no programs open. I'm also making sure my notebook has adequate ventilation and there is definitely no dust buildup around the CPU area or the fan.

I've searched high and low for a solution, if in fact there is one. Some have suggested switching to fglrx rather than the open driver for my ATI card may fix it (the open driver has powersaving features disabled, or something?), but I can't because my card is not supported. Some have suggested manually installing and configuring certain CPU utilities through command line, but they don't appear to do anything better than the default 10.04 ones. Speaking of cpufreq, here is the output of the cpufreq-info command:

cpufrequtils 006: cpufreq-info (C) Dominik Brodowski 2004-2009
Report errors and bugs to [email]cpufreq@vger.kernel.org[/email], please.
analyzing CPU 0:
 driver: acpi-cpufreq
 CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0
 CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 0
 maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
 hardware limits: 996 MHz - 1.99 GHz
 available frequency steps: 1.99 GHz, 1.66 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 996 MHz
 available cpufreq governors: conservative, ondemand, userspace, powersave, performance
 current policy: frequency should be within 996 MHz and 1.99 GHz.
         The governor "conservative" may decide which speed to use
         within this range.
 current CPU frequency is 996 MHz.
 cpufreq stats: 1.99 GHz:5.23%, 1.66 GHz:1.15%, 1.33 GHz:1.85%, 996 MHz:91.77% (5789)
analyzing CPU 1:
 driver: acpi-cpufreq
 CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 1
 CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 1
 maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
 hardware limits: 996 MHz - 1.99 GHz
 available frequency steps: 1.99 GHz, 1.66 GHz, 1.33 GHz, 996 MHz
 available cpufreq governors: conservative, ondemand, userspace, powersave, performance
 current policy: frequency should be within 996 MHz and 1.99 GHz.
         The governor "conservative" may decide which speed to use
         within this range.
 current CPU frequency is 996 MHz.
 cpufreq stats: 1.99 GHz:3.38%, 1.66 GHz:0.85%, 1.33 GHz:1.67%, 996 MHz:94.11% (5983)

The title of this post may be misleading. When I say 'overheating', I mean my CPU is getting much hotter than I would like - sometimes up to ~100C! I have actually had the computer turn off after getting too hot after running a few 3D games (with all the settings turned down as low as possible), but I've learned not to play these at all due to this issue.

I'd just love for my computer to be quieter (I've heard some people have fans which are close to silent occasionally!), not get too hot and, if possible, allow me to use a few programs I've had trouble with in the past. This may be too much to ask =/

Does anyone have a suggestion as to what I could try? Has anyone else encountered similar issues with this or other model notebooks? From what I can remember, this has been a recurring issue with my hardware running numerous versions of Kubuntu, all installed clean.

Thanks for reading!

[Yuri sss]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

In Lucid, I noticed that the powersaving for my Cpu (Amd Phenom II X4) was not working, resulting in high temperatures.
I eventually installed Granola, an app for powersaving, and it fixed everything just fine, with my temperatures being a good bit lower now

Installation instructions are here:
http://grano.la/help/

[silentmonkey]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

I installed Granola, as you suggested.

It hasn't fixed the issue, as I managed to get the temperature back up to 100C by using a graphics program for about ten minutes. And my idle temperature after letting it sit for a while is still set around 65C. (Blogilo still uses 80+% cpu for some reason, too, but I think that may be a separate issue.)

However! I can't tell for certain, but I believe Granola may have reduced my power consumption and CPU usage slightly. It's gotten down to about 3-5% with everything closed and I don't think it's previously been below ~6C - but I've only been looking out for this recently.

So, thanks for the recommendation. Did not solve my problem, but it's a nice little application to have running.

[Yuri sss]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

That way... perhaps for some reason the fans can't provide proper ventilation anymore (e.g. they could be dusted up or something).
With my desktop PC, I have to clean it regularly (every 2-3 months) so it doesn't get too dusted up.
If it's not too much of a hassle, you could open your notebook and clean the fans from dust and eventual other dirt and see if that improves things.

[idyllic]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

Are you using Open Source ATI driver or fglrx driver? Opensource ATI driver will be no doubt very hot.

[silentmonkey]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

Thanks for replying!

The fan/CPU area had already been checked for buildup of dust. It's looking quite good and I check on it occasionally already.

I'm not using the fglrx driver because my ATI card is not supported - I tried installing it with no luck, even though I had no problem using fglrx a few years ago.

These two points were both in my original post. I don't blame you for missing them though, my post was kinda long =p

I think what I'll do is just ignore the problem, like I already have been for a number of years already. If I could be bothered, I'll try a non-Kubuntu live CD one day and see if that makes any difference to noise and heat. (Any suggestions?) Having failed that, I might look into getting another laptop in the not-too-distant future - this time one using an nVidia card!

Anyone have a suggestion as to where I can find helpful linux laptop reviews? I like to buy second-hand things so it would be good to see how particular models have stood up after long-term use.

It's a shame. This computer is great apart for the overheating issue. And the bad video card. And the faulty DVD drive. And the cracked case problem everyone with this model appears to have. And the broken front button which means I have to force the screen open whenever I want to use it. And the two-minute battery life.

Shut up! I love this computer!

*holds it close so nobody can take it away*

Thanks for reading my extremely important updates, everyone =)

[Yuri sss]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

I think what I'll do is just ignore the problem, like I already have been for a number of years already. If I could be bothered, I'll try a non-Kubuntu live CD one day and see if that makes any difference to noise and heat. (Any suggestions?) Having failed that, I might look into getting another laptop in the not-too-distant future - this time one using an nVidia card!

You wouldn't do yourself any favour there - in the very opposite, you would jump out of the frying pan and into the open fire, making things much worse.
nvidia notebook gpus are known for running very hot (even hotter than their desktop gpus), and for frequently having heat-related problems. Not long ago, there was a massive problem with thousands of notebooks going kaputt because of overheating nvidia gpus >
What was even worse was that nvidia refused to take up responsibility for their faulty chips, but instead tried to blame it on end-users and Oems >
HP ended up sueing nvidia because of this.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...own-blame-game

[silentmonkey]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

Wow! Thanks for the link! Of course, I could get lucky and get a system which has great hardware, but I'd have to really look into it first.

So, upgrade options look like this:

* Something with an ATI card which runs well using fglrx. (I'm hesitant because of my current ATI experience, though I know they've improved Linux support considerably over the past few years.)
* An nVidia system which I have been able to research properly beforehand to make sure it's not bad for cooling. (I'm hesitant after reading your link. Are they the kind of company I'd like running my computer?)
* Some other, entirely different graphics system.

What this reinforces, in my mind, is the strength of getting a second-hand system which has proven over time to be reliable.

An upgrade isn't urgent, of course, and I primarily use my laptop for study, reading or watching video files. But I downloaded the Humble Indy Bundle a few months ago, and got the Penumbra collection last year, and would like to be able to try them out one day. And there are study-related events I can't attend on Second Life for more than a minute before my computer screams at me to get out!

If only my desktop didn't die life would be much easier =)

[eddieg780]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

Hi Silentmonkey,

I have had great experience with nvidia cards in my laptops and desktops. As with all hardware you can have problems with compatibility. Believe me, I've been repairing computers since 1989 and HP was the biggest problem. They purchase the cheapest components possible. Nvidia cards are more compatible with most games. I suspect your fan problem to be just that, the fan. Noisy fans usually indicate the bearings are warn out and the fan can not spin up. Put your computer on a laptop cooler pad. You can get one at Wal-mart. If the temp drops it might be enough. By the description of your computer it may not be worth changing out the fan but it would be cheaper than a new laptop. Either way the overheating will eventually destroy your machine.

[toad]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

Looks like one of your cpus is working flat out. Have a look at what top says, although I agree that it is most likely X.

[Yuri sss]

Re: Notebook CPU overheating issue

I have had great experience with nvidia cards in my laptops and desktops.

I've made the very opposite experience. nvidia cards have always proven to be problematic. The current Fermi gtx480 desktop vga from nvidia could easily be used as a cooking plate. Just take a look at the humongous cooler neccessary to keep temperatures somewhat under control:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...tx480_review/3

Temperatures are still awful, though, and the fan has to run very high, creating a deafening noise, to keep the card from overheating:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...tx480_review/4

Temperatures
Normally for the purposes of fairness we run all our benchmarks and overclocking tests at 50% fans. Unfortunately nVidias reference cooler is so hopeless that within two minutes the card shut itself down, having passed 110°C. 60% fans had the same effect and it wasn't until we pushed into the deafening realm of 70% that our stock card was capable of running our tests.

We'd be very VERY dubious about running at anything under than 80% though and this is largely a fault of the fan which is barely an asthmatic mouse at 50% or below. Earplugs a must.

It has to be noticed that this is nothing to do with ZOTAC at all and solely the fault of nVidia and their inability to tame the GTX480.

The conclusion is accordingly:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/g...tx480_review/8

We can best explain the volume of heat with this small anecdote. When we were trying to get the fan as near to our desired 50% as possible, whilst not causing thermal shutdown, we thought we'd got it nailed at 65%. However the GTX480 puts out so much heat that although it was touch and go when we started testing, within 20 minutes the temperature in the room had increased so much due to the head expelled from the card, that we experienced thermal cutoff because the card had warmed the room up so much the air it was sucking in was too warm to keep it under 110°C.

In SLI we imagine you'll never need to heat your house again, as one of these cards can heat a 15'x15' room by 2°C in half an hour.

The second major problem is noise. This isn't a quiet cooler when idling, but as under load the card needs to be kept around 80% fans it becomes intolerably loud. In these modern times when swathes of companies have demonstrated that cool and quiet need not be mutually exclusive, it is beyond us how nVidia have designed a cooler that is hot and loud. Again we have to stress that this is not a problem with Zotac themselves, rather the nVidia reference design.

Finally there is that price. The thick end of £450 is far too much for such a small performance gain over the significantly cheaper ATI 5870 and especially when the noise and heat is taken into consideration.

If you're looking for a card that *doesn't* run hot, nvidia is certainly the last one you should turn to. Notebook gpus are just as troublesome. That's true not only for me, but for everyone I know. Take my uncle, for instance. I don't know how many times he cursed the day when he got his Dell notebook with nvidia gpu, because the thing was constantly overheating. After a year, it finally had a complete meltdown and went totally kaputt. He had to send it in and wait six weeks (!) for a replacement. Since he needed the laptop for work, he got a new one in the meantime. After consulting with me, he got one with Ati 4530 gpu in it, which has been working fine ever since - no overheating or anything. It's this one:
HP Pavilion dv7-3101sa Entertainment Laptop

Nvidia cards are more compatible with most games.

No maketing lies here please! >
If you buy a laptop, the last thing you do with it is playing games on it. So even if the above would be true (which it certainly isn't), it would still be totally irrelevant.

I suspect your fan problem to be just that, the fan. Noisy fans usually indicate the bearings are warn out and the fan can not spin up. Put your computer on a laptop cooler pad. You can get one at Wal-mart. If the temp drops it might be enough. By the description of your computer it may not be worth changing out the fan but it would be cheaper than a new laptop. Either way the overheating will eventually destroy your machine.

That's possible. If the fan isn't dusted up, there could still be something else obstructing operation, or the fan has suffered too much wear and tear and can't operate normally anymore. A laptop cooler pad could help there and is probably much cheaper than having the fan changed.