Mark Shuttleworth's keynote at LinuxCon

[GreyGeek]

I retired last year from 40 years of programming.

One of the first things I learned was that the concept of programming was invented by a woman, who wrote under the name of "George Sanders",  IIRC, because women, at the time,  "weren't capable of high intellectual thoughts".   Another thing I learned was that the term "debugging" was used by Commodore Grace, who invented COBOL, when she removed a bug from the guts of a vacuum tube computer after it electrocuted itself shorting out a heater filament.  COBOL is STILL in use.

And, in 40 years of programming, I've worked with men and women who could code circles around me, and with some who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper sack.  The gender of the programmer is immaterial in the operation of the code,      And, in all that time, I NEVER found any genitalia in any code.     Firing an incompetent male programmer was easy.   Firing an incompetent female programmer was fraught with political  danger because some attempted to play the gender card and claim sexism.  The WORST "coder" I ever had the misfortune to work with was a woman who LIED on her resume about her coding experience, in fact, even about her computer experience.  She didn't know the difference between Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer, but she drove to work a black Mercedes because she sued her previous employer for discrimination after he fired her for incompetence. 

Why was she hired?   You can check the references of male applicants and give them coding tests.  In many environments you can do neither with female applicants, unless you want to risk charges of discrimination or sexism.  The reason is simple.  In a court of law one is usually presumed innocence unless convicted by a jury of their peers who saw evidence which withstood rebuttal.   In the court of PC one is guilty until proven innocent, and even then it doesn't seem to matter, because evidence doesn't have to be rebutted or vetted, merely posited.

If you give me enough writings from any person I can, with the standards being used today to "prove" sexism, "prove" anyone guilty of sexism.  Even women!    A word here, a phrase there, pretty soon it can "add up to damning evidence".

The problem is the standard:  As one person explained it to me, "sexism is what ever the offended party says it is".    From my POV, that's just another way of describing a kangaroo court.   It seems strange to me that after CENTURIES of being treated as and considered to be nothing more than chattel property,  and having achieved equality, some women now want to employ the same system that was used against them to tilt the field yet again.

My view is this:  everyone is equal in rights and responsibilities, regardless of gender, race or religion.   HOWEVER, it cannot be denied that not all people are equal in talent.     Gender, race or religion should NEVER be used to favour or disfavour talent.

IOW,  Show me the code.   If it works better than the existing code it will replace the existing code.  Otherwise, it won't.

[askrieger]

@GreyGeek: Here's a bit of code (although not necessarily the kind that you're referring to) that, I believe, was written by Mark Shuttleworth, i.e. The Ubuntu Code of Conduct.  All members of the formal Ubuntu Community (specifically including forum mods) are expected to sign and comply.  You'll note that Mark himself is explicitly expected to be perfect, but we don't always get what we expect.  However, The Golden Rule: "The guy with the gold makes the rules!" still applies.    

I hope that this controversy, has reached Mark's attention.  I assume that it has, and that whoever writes his remarks will be more careful in future.

BTW, I always found it extremely difficult to fire people, regardless of age, sex, religion or national origin.  That was especially true, if it was a layoff because I hadn't done my job of getting the new contract that we needed to keep them employed.

[Death Kitten]

And, in 40 years of programming, I've worked with men and women who could code circles around me, and with some who couldn't think their way out of a wet paper sack.  The gender of the programmer is immaterial in the operation of the code,      And, in all that time, I NEVER found any genitalia in any code.     Firing an incompetent male programmer was easy.   Firing an incompetent female programmer was fraught with political  danger because some attempted to play the gender card and claim sexism.  The WORST "coder" I ever had the misfortune to work with was a woman who LIED on her resume about her coding experience, in fact, even about her computer experience.  She didn't know the difference between Windows Explorer and Internet Explorer, but she drove to work a black Mercedes because she sued her previous employer for discrimination after he fired her for incompetence. 

Why was she hired?   You can check the references of male applicants and give them coding tests.  In many environments you can do neither with female applicants, unless you want to risk charges of discrimination or sexism.  The reason is simple.  In a court of law one is usually presumed innocence unless convicted by a jury of their peers who saw evidence which withstood rebuttal.   In the court of PC one is guilty until proven innocent, and even then it doesn't seem to matter, because evidence doesn't have to be rebutted or vetted, merely posited.

People like this woman are also part of the reason women hide from these sectors. Because of stupid b*tches like this woman, who take advantage of areas that women are not as present in, or who take advantages of sexism to get their goals moved forward, they generate backlash against those of us who can and do bust our behinds to do our jobs.

I've had a few conversations with a coworker of mine who's only been 18 for a few months. She insists she's not a feminist, and lists as reasons why feminism is evil women like the one you cited here, the ones who take advantage of the court system to get alimony and child support  beyond what they probably should be entitled to simply by playing up the "poor me, I'm just a little girl" defense, or the ones who try to insist we'd be better off without men or that men should be treated like second class citizens. I've tried to teach my coworker that these women are not feminists, they're sexists just like the men they're citing as a reason to backlash against the whole gender. I can only hope that I've at least gotten her to consider this point, if I haven't yet effectively conveyed this to her.

And I'd also be willing to bet that my backlash against these fem-nazis and these saboteurs of equality have left many choice quotes through the years that could easily be twisted to make me seem to be sexist against women. Honestly, it's the stupidity, the damage and the punishing of people not responsible for the problem that I am hateful of. There are very few things that scare me as much as stupidity, and the sorts of women who undermine my ability to be treated like an equal based upon my intelligence, skills and abilities alone are truly stupid.

[Adrian]

I think you are overly concerned about being judged as a member of a group not as an individual. Most of the people can find themselves at one point or another part of a stereotyped group, as long as there's no official discriminations (as it was in case of African Americans) the simple solution is to show what you are capable of and people will judge you for your qualities not for the stereotype... as said before, the code doesn't have sex... it works or it doesn't, it's on time or it's late... computer science is potentially the least discriminatory field in my view because the results are very clear and less subjective.

[monte48lowes]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8352606.stm

I watched the first 15 minutes of the presentation from Linuxcon. I didn't find anything that really stood out as being sexist, other than the ice breaker "release" comment.

The linked article discusses making computers easier for grandmas and grandpas.

I remember my eighth grade math teacher. He told me I was lazy and didn't finish anything. It made me very angry at the time. During the next school year, I had him as my math teacher again. I proved him wrong by getting the highest grade in the class.

DK is a prime example of proving the stereotype wrong.

I really forgot why this thread was started in the first place...

Mike

[dibl]

I like girls.








OH, is that OT?

 

[Qqmike]

dibl -- Me, too.  I like 'em a lot.

[Death Kitten]

I really forgot why this thread was started in the first place...

I started this thread to vent some of my frustration, both at Shuttleworth and at those people out there who were throwing the whole book at Shuttleworth when he really only deserved up to Chapter 3.

I am glad to say that most of the responses to this thread have confirmed that I really do like this forum for a good reason.

[Adrian]

he really only deserved up to Chapter 3.

LOL

[GreyGeek]

....
I started this thread to vent some of my frustration, both at Shuttleworth and at those people out there who were throwing the whole book at Shuttleworth when he really only deserved up to Chapter 3.
.....

 

" ... only three chapters..."

ROF,LLLL

DK, you have a way with words!!!

[Death Kitten]

....
I started this thread to vent some of my frustration, both at Shuttleworth and at those people out there who were throwing the whole book at Shuttleworth when he really only deserved up to Chapter 3.
.....

 

" ... only three chapters..."

ROF,LLLL

DK, you have a way with words!!!

I can't take the credit on that one. One of my most favorite authors actually introduced that twist on that old phrase in his most recent book, and it quite tickled my fancy. Anyone else here read Neal Stephenson? Particularly Anathem? That would be where I picked up that take on the idea.